Ropen hörs oftare från högern. Inbördeskriget bryter snart ut. Det är oundvikligt. Samhällskontraktet är brutet. Samtidigt har vänstern glömt inbördeskriget - och därmed även glömt revolutionen. Därmed osynliggör vi det våld som finns inbyggd i kapitalismen. Med Björn Nordh går vi igenom teorierna om inbördeskriget, från Carl Schmitt, Hannah Arendt och Hans Magnus Enzensberger över till Maurizio Lazzarato och Tiqqun. Är samhället lika kännetecknat av ett inbördes krig som en inbördes hjälp? För mer info: Maurizio Lazzarato and Éric Alliez: To Our Enemies https://www.e-flux.com/journal/78/82697/to-our-enemies/ Tiqqun: The great game of civil war https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mazF28rCNvU Böcker: Hannah Arendt: Om revolutionen (Daidalos, 2021) Carl Schimtt: Det poltiska som bwgrepp (Daidalos, 2010) Hans Magnus Enzensberger: Inbördes krig (Nordstedts, 1993) Maurizio Lazzarato: Capital hates everone: Fascism or revolution (Semiotext(e), 2021) Giorgio Agamben: Stasis: Civil War as a Political Paradigm (Standford University press, 2015) Tiqqun: Introduction to civil war (Semiotext(e), 2010)
1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:12,930 Until further notice, all your rights are hereby suspended.
2 00:00:13,410 --> 00:00:17,430 Naturally, you should keep the illusion that you still have some for a little while.
3 00:00:17,690 --> 00:00:21,290 That way we can violate them one by one, case by case.
4 00:00:22,070 --> 00:00:23,710 Rule number two, be nice.
5 00:00:24,030 --> 00:00:29,570 Don't mention laws, the Constitution, or any of the lubrications of another age to us anymore.
6 00:00:30,070 --> 00:00:31,990 Some time ago, as you may have noticed,
7 00:00:31,990 --> 00:00:38,990 we passed certain laws that put us above the laws and the rest of the so-called Constitution.
8 00:00:40,130 --> 00:00:45,170 Rule number three, you're weak, isolated, stupid, abused.
9 00:00:45,590 --> 00:00:49,570 We are numerous, organized, strong, and enlightened.
10 00:00:50,270 --> 00:00:51,890 Some might say we're a mafia.
11 00:00:52,910 --> 00:00:53,890 That's a lie.
12 00:00:54,330 --> 00:00:58,130 We are the mafia, the one that's won out over all the others.
13 00:00:58,130 --> 00:01:01,550 We alone are able to protect you from the chaos of the world
14 00:01:01,550 --> 00:01:01,970 and the world itself.
15 00:01:02,210 --> 00:01:05,090 That's why it pleases us so greatly to make you think you're weak,
16 00:01:05,330 --> 00:01:07,410 to make you believe you are insecure.
17 00:01:08,370 --> 00:01:10,610 That's what makes our racket so profitable.
18 00:01:11,810 --> 00:01:15,290 Rule number four, for you, the game will consist in you escaping,
19 00:01:15,490 --> 00:01:17,030 or at least trying to escape.
20 00:01:17,350 --> 00:01:20,630 By escaping, we mean going beyond your dependent state.
21 00:01:21,090 --> 00:01:24,430 For now, it's true you do depend on us in all aspects of your life.
22 00:01:24,650 --> 00:01:27,130 You eat what we produce, you breathe what we pollute,
23 00:01:27,130 --> 00:01:29,450 you're at our mercy for the slightest tooth decay,
24 00:01:29,810 --> 00:01:31,810 and above all, you can't do anything.
25 00:01:31,990 --> 00:01:33,850 Against the sovereignty of our police forces,
26 00:01:34,150 --> 00:01:36,090 which we have given the full range of powers,
27 00:01:36,550 --> 00:01:39,030 both in terms of discretion and action.
28 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,360 Welcome to The Ape's Anatomy.
29 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,120 Now I'm sitting in Gothenburg this time,
30 00:01:54,420 --> 00:01:57,240 in a kitchen, at home with Björn Nord.
31 00:01:58,400 --> 00:01:59,500 Björn Nord, welcome.
32 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:01,000 It's the second time you're on the podcast.
33 00:02:01,660 --> 00:02:03,260 Yes, thanks. It's fun to be back.
34 00:02:03,940 --> 00:02:07,800 We're going to tie in a little bit to what we talked about last time.
35 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:09,320 Mm, exactly.
36 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:10,520 What did we talk about last time?
37 00:02:10,699 --> 00:02:13,800 We talked about... The starting point was a little bit...
38 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,160 The first stop was my text, which was with Brand,
39 00:02:16,620 --> 00:02:17,560 which was called The Ape of Survival.
40 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,380 And then there was a lot of focus on the ape, the ape concept.
41 00:02:22,820 --> 00:02:24,800 And now we're going over a little bit more about...
42 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:26,500 We're talking about war and civil war.
43 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:28,020 Yes, civil war.
44 00:02:28,020 --> 00:02:29,220 And that...
45 00:02:29,220 --> 00:02:36,280 For a while, I made an episode that was about the global war,
46 00:02:36,460 --> 00:02:37,800 the global war regime.
47 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:38,840 Mm.
48 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,120 And I went into that a little bit with Maurizio Lazzarato,
49 00:02:42,420 --> 00:02:46,120 who is an autonomous theorist.
50 00:02:46,540 --> 00:02:48,680 He's originally from Padua.
51 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:51,520 I don't know if I said that, but I've met him,
52 00:02:51,700 --> 00:02:53,520 and I've also met his sister in Padua.
53 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:55,580 Yes, you had even forgotten that you had interviewed him once.
54 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,160 Yes, that's right. I have an interview with him.
55 00:03:00,220 --> 00:03:04,060 And he, in Poter Operai, was the one who was responsible
56 00:03:04,060 --> 00:03:06,620 for their militant branch in Padua.
57 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:07,320 So he...
58 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,320 Then he fled and wanted to end up in Paris.
59 00:03:10,640 --> 00:03:14,260 And there, I think, he got access to Foucault's archive
60 00:03:14,260 --> 00:03:16,780 and devoted himself a lot to Foucault.
61 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,460 And we have read this book called
62 00:03:21,460 --> 00:03:23,800 Capital Hates Everyone.
63 00:03:24,380 --> 00:03:25,780 And you've read many more books about him.
64 00:03:25,780 --> 00:03:27,240 Yes, I have read...
65 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:32,100 Before this interview, I had mostly just read his text
66 00:03:32,100 --> 00:03:34,860 about immaterial work, which comes with a collection
67 00:03:34,860 --> 00:03:37,000 from the 90s called Radical Politics in Italy.
68 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,260 But now it's a bit like I fell into the Lazzarato rabbit hole
69 00:03:40,260 --> 00:03:41,860 and read most of what I came across.
70 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,840 So I've also read War and Capital, a slightly thicker book,
71 00:03:46,300 --> 00:03:48,420 and I've also read these texts that he's written
72 00:03:48,420 --> 00:03:50,220 that are on illwill on the internet.
73 00:03:50,780 --> 00:03:54,980 And it's a bit exciting now when both Mario Tronti
74 00:03:54,980 --> 00:03:57,860 and Antonio Negri, Tony Negri, are gone.
75 00:03:58,140 --> 00:04:01,280 To walk in the circle around them,
76 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:03,940 because they were never alone.
77 00:04:03,940 --> 00:04:07,200 They always thought collectively with a large group,
78 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:08,440 with other people.
79 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:12,260 And then you find Maurizio Lazzarato,
80 00:04:12,780 --> 00:04:15,660 Sandro Messadra, who is talked about in the podcast,
81 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,839 Paolo Virno, and...
82 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,600 Yes, there's a lot to take from there.
83 00:04:22,980 --> 00:04:24,700 Yes, and there is a...
84 00:04:24,700 --> 00:04:25,980 We have a common comrade,
85 00:04:26,100 --> 00:04:27,720 who is a little jokingly used to call Lazzarato
86 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:28,600 for Dark Negri.
87 00:04:29,740 --> 00:04:33,220 Even if it's a joke, I still think it's quite touching,
88 00:04:33,220 --> 00:04:35,520 because Tony Negri is very positive and exciting
89 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,180 about capitalism in the United States,
90 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,380 and he's very clear about the importance of the idea
91 00:04:39,380 --> 00:04:41,960 of the new forms, the new possibilities for revolutionary movements,
92 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,100 so Lazzarato sees more of that war,
93 00:04:44,100 --> 00:04:46,540 the war of infighting, control and destruction.
94 00:04:46,540 --> 00:04:49,080 So yes, before I got into what this could mean,
95 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:51,660 I probably thought that they would be a little closer to each other,
96 00:04:51,660 --> 00:04:53,420 since they come from the same direction, the same tradition,
97 00:04:54,020 --> 00:04:58,200 but Lazzarato is still quite friendly in his criticism of Harto Negri.
98 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,800 And I think this is also a bit like...
99 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,220 somewhere that they do a book-close-up over time,
100 00:05:05,220 --> 00:05:06,580 both time...
101 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:16,200 The time with Negri and the time with the imperial analysis and the time with Foucault's analysis on biomarkt and so on.
102 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,200 It's like a pendulum movement.
103 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:26,200 What they reacted to in the 60s and 70s and then went to France and found something completely different.
104 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:34,200 That it went too far in the other direction and now they're trying to turn the pendulum back a bit.
105 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:41,200 What can you say is Lazzarato's basic thesis in Capital Hates Everyone?
106 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:50,200 The most important thing is how he sees war, civil war and the original accumulation.
107 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:58,200 He connects war between states, civil war, class, racism and gender.
108 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:02,200 That it has always followed the development of capital.
109 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,200 And that's because they have the basis.
110 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:08,200 In the classical Marxist school it's called the original accumulation.
111 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:13,200 Which Marx called the historical separation of processes between the producer and the means of production.
112 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:18,200 That is, the process of proletarianization and the consumption of common resources and so on.
113 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:25,200 Marx says that this was a process that was dripping from top to toe over every pore of blood and dirt.
114 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,200 And that's an approach that Lazzarato really has.
115 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:32,200 This with the blood and dirt that always follows the original accumulation.
116 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,200 Which he means is something that happens.
117 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,200 It has to be done on a daily basis.
118 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:42,200 The subordination of these classes is nothing that has happened as a historical fact.
119 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,200 As a form of precondition for the capitalist production method.
120 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,200 He means that it is a constantly ongoing process.
121 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:54,200 And that this process requires a very external economic violence that forms classes.
122 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,200 And that in a way is a fundamental heresy.
123 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:02,200 And a preserving violence that both stabilizes and reproduces relations between the victors and the defeated.
124 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:08,200 And that is really something that goes on in his take on the regular civil war.
125 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:12,200 Simply that these wars, they annihilate bodies, not physically.
126 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:16,200 And then they divide them into victors and defeated, owners and non-owners.
127 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:25,200 So many Marxists do this, that capitalism builds on violence and blood in its introduction.
128 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:26,200 Precisely.
129 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:31,200 Just when you drive away these small self-possessing groups.
130 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,200 From their land, the land they inhabit.
131 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,200 They are forced to look for themselves.
132 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,200 And they own nothing other than their labor.
133 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:40,200 To look for themselves in the factories.
134 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,200 That there is violence.
135 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,200 And then there is violence in colonialism.
136 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,200 The annihilation of the world.
137 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:50,200 To take everything from slaves to resources in abundance.
138 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:57,200 But then during the 19th century and the global free trade, neoliberalism.
139 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,200 Then it has been a time of peace.
140 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:01,200 And that it is...
141 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:02,200 Like the EU.
142 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,200 The EU has been a peace project.
143 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:10,200 By creating trade in Europe, the war disappeared from Europe.
144 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:14,200 And now we have seen the return of the war to Europe.
145 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:18,200 And a time that we thought maybe was...
146 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:25,200 That the war had more disappeared and passed away in police operations in a way.
147 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:30,200 That they had been so ideologically motivated by the USA and desalinated.
148 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,200 That they are invading.
149 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,200 They make targeted attacks in different countries.
150 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,200 But as a kind of global police.
151 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:41,200 Rather than as a conflict between sovereign nations.
152 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,200 That fight against each other.
153 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:44,200 No, exactly.
154 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,200 And then the war has somehow come back.
155 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:48,200 But...
156 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:52,200 And that's what I've been talking about in a previous podcast.
157 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,200 That it was a mistake to think away the war.
158 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,200 But then there is this other side as well.
159 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:58,200 That it was...
160 00:08:58,200 --> 00:08:59,200 Lassaratt and Lyfter.
161 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,200 That it was a mistake to think away the revolution.
162 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,200 And the civil war.
163 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,200 From this analysis.
164 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:10,200 If you take Foucault's concept of biopolitics.
165 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:16,200 Biopolitics is a policy that is exercised over populations.
166 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,200 Over populations.
167 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:22,200 To make them healthy.
168 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:23,200 To make them healthy.
169 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:24,200 To make them healthy.
170 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:25,200 To make them healthy.
171 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:26,200 To make them healthy.
172 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:27,200 To make them healthy.
173 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:28,200 To make them healthy.
174 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:29,200 To make them healthy.
175 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:30,200 To make them healthy.
176 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,200 And it's a policy that goes out a lot of...
177 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:38,200 Not on punishing, discipline in that way.
178 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,200 That is not the whining you threaten with.
179 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:42,200 No.
180 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:44,200 But there are many whining.
181 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:49,200 I read another text by Lassaratt, and he calls it a kind of pastoral power.
182 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:51,200 Kind of like the QR code.
183 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:52,200 Yes, exactly.
184 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:53,200 It's a QR code in a QR code.
185 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,200 How to get it to go there.
186 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:56,200 The QR code knows himself that he's running.
187 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:57,200 But more on the QR code.
188 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,200 Exactly, you're in a certain direction.
189 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:04,200 Yes, then you get them to run there themselves, wherever you want.
190 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:11,200 From Foucault to Deleuze and Guattari to Nedra Hart, this has been a lot of...
191 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:16,200 Instead of looking at power in a purely repressive way, you see how power produces.
192 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:24,200 It's productive, it creates needs, desires, joy, longing for the same people.
193 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:31,200 And you can even say that this productive almost comes before the capital.
194 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:37,200 The resistance comes before the power of Foucault in the end.
195 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:46,200 There are a lot of productive communities, and then the Foucault-herds come and try to turn things around to make money.
196 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:52,200 It's like having a community on the internet to make money,
197 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,200 where people themselves sit and put up...
198 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:59,200 their daily conversations with food recipes and talk about life and so on.
199 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,200 And that's what Lazzarato...
200 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,200 He draws it back to the first step, which is what we were talking about,
201 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:09,200 that the original accumulation and the victory of the capital over the subordinate classes must happen first.
202 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,200 And it happens through repression, through violence.
203 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:21,200 He means that the existence of profit requires national state, racism, sexism.
204 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:24,200 If necessary, then also fascism and civil war.
205 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:31,200 To make it possible politically to continue exploitation and expulsion when the situation requires it.
206 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:36,200 Simply, without state, without war, without racism, without fascism, there will be no profit.
207 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:43,200 That he really connects it with violence and fascism, with profit and with the survival of capitalism.
208 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,200 In a different way than these...
209 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,200 And he means that...
210 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,200 And you talk about it a little in this war regime section as well.
211 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:53,200 It's not like he completely dismisses Deleuze and Gattari and Foucault and so on.
212 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,200 But he means that it's a later step.
213 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,200 With the form of subjectivities and all that.
214 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:08,200 Even when he talks about neoliberalism and its introduction in Latin America
215 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:15,200 and how it spread from Latin America in the 70s to England and the rest of the world in the USA.
216 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,200 That it has also been a violent process.
217 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:22,200 More than the one that has been initiated with the crossing of labour movements,
218 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,200 the crossing of trade union movements,
219 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:29,200 the dismissal of democratically elected socialist presidents
220 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:38,200 to create this free, regulated market that neoliberalism is based on.
221 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:43,200 So even neoliberalism, our contemporary neoliberalism, drips blood.
222 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,200 Not just what happened in the 17th and 18th centuries.
223 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,200 No, just like Lazzaretto is very clear about it.
224 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:52,200 That the neoliberal economists stood arm in arm with the police,
225 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:56,200 the torturers, the military at the introduction of neoliberalism.
226 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,200 And that it was a basic requirement.
227 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:04,200 That later you can talk about the institutions, the economy and the subjectivities that neoliberalism created.
228 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,200 But first, it was the violent introduction.
229 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:11,200 And this, what shall we say, the neoliberal counter-revolution.
230 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:12,200 If we take a step back.
231 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:16,200 If neoliberalism was a form of capitalist counter-revolution,
232 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,200 where you introduced neoliberalism with violence,
233 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,200 then you can rewind time a bit.
234 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:26,200 Because it was just an aspect of what he meant is the global civil war.
235 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:36,200 Because he means that the global civil war is a term that has its basis in Carl Schmitt and Hannah Arendt.
236 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:41,200 And they wrote at the same time, formulated similar thoughts at the beginning of the sixties.
237 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:46,200 Where they investigated the situation where the boundaries between war and peace have become more diffuse.
238 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,200 And that the role of the nationalists has changed and weakened.
239 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,200 If we start with Carl Schmitt.
240 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:56,200 You talked a bit about him in the war skim section.
241 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,200 He is a really good guy.
242 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:02,200 He is a German jurist, political thinker, but also a nazi.
243 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,200 Who, among other things, refused Nazification after the war.
244 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:06,200 So he was hardcore.
245 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:11,200 And for him, this concept of the global civil war underlines the crisis of a sovereign state.
246 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,200 And that this traditional division of power has collapsed.
247 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:20,200 And that there is a risk that there will be a conscious conflict that surrounds these international laws, international contexts.
248 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:25,200 And that this distinction, which he is perhaps most familiar with, between friend and foe.
249 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:31,200 Which he has previously proposed as a way to regulate antagonistic relations between sovereign states.
250 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,200 That it will no longer last.
251 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:40,200 And that borders, border territories, will be of less importance to regulate the enemy earlier.
252 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,200 And that's a bit of what he's trying to catch up with.
253 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:49,200 And he is also very much aware of the fact that earlier war regimes, armed forces, have been built on.
254 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:53,200 Great Britain built on control over the sea, the lake.
255 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:59,200 And then stood against, for example, Germany, which was a national power.
256 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,200 They had their tank wagons.
257 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,200 They built on invading countries.
258 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,200 But then, when it became air and fire.
259 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:11,200 Then the relationship to territories also changed.
260 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:14,200 And now with the atomic war and the atomic bomb.
261 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,200 And even more today, with the drones.
262 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:18,200 Yes.
263 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:27,200 With all the missiles, it means that territorial control is something completely different today.
264 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,200 The role of war is completely changed.
265 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,200 And we see that clearly today.
266 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:42,200 Where Israel is waging a war against Hamas, Hezbollah, the rebels in Yemen.
267 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,200 Who all may have some support from Iran.
268 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,200 But who are not regular armies.
269 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:53,200 They are irregular fighters, but who have access to the drones.
270 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,200 To such a good weapon equipment now.
271 00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:01,200 That they are capable of causing Israel great damage back.
272 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,200 Exactly, that they can get through this missile defense.
273 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,200 And that they are so advanced.
274 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:15,200 So, Lazzarato and even Carl Schmitt would in one way or another describe this more as a regional civil war.
275 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,200 Than a war, so to speak.
276 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:21,200 Because it is something that happens through nations.
277 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,200 And it is not between sovereign nations.
278 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:28,200 This happens in that way, the war.
279 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:32,200 No, and that's exactly what Hannah Arendt is also talking about.
280 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,200 With the total war, during the First World War.
281 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:38,200 Then it also became so that the distinction between military and civilian.
282 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,200 And soldiers and civilians.
283 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,200 That it stopped, that the civilian and military moved together.
284 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:44,200 Yes.
285 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,200 And she means, she uses an example that with the total war.
286 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,200 It means that there will be a ceasefire.
287 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,200 A way of war that is similar to what Rome used against Carthage.
288 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,200 And that is simply to eradicate it from the surface of the earth.
289 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,200 And that's exactly what we can see now also in Gaza.
290 00:16:58,200 --> 00:16:59,200 That it is Israel.
291 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,200 They completely annihilate it.
292 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:02,200 Yes, it is the total war.
293 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,200 Yes, it is really the total war on all fronts.
294 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:09,200 Both military and also economically with blockades and emergencies.
295 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:13,200 And to destroy infrastructure and roads and water.
296 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:14,200 Yes.
297 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:18,200 In order to defeat the Hamas military border.
298 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,200 You have to defeat the entire people.
299 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:21,200 Exactly.
300 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,200 The entire civilization there.
301 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:24,200 The end.
302 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:25,200 Totally.
303 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,200 But there is something else here.
304 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,200 With Hannah Arendt and Lazzarato.
305 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,200 When they talk about this as well as the global civil war.
306 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:39,200 And that is also that there is a fundamental antagonism.
307 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,200 A fundamental conflict in this society.
308 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:47,200 And we have these big urban theorists in the 16th century.
309 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,200 Like Hobbes and the contract theory.
310 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,200 He describes it as the state of emergency is everyone's war against everyone.
311 00:17:54,200 --> 00:18:01,200 And then comes a kind of threat and threatens everyone with death.
312 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:03,200 If they do not surrender.
313 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:07,200 But if they surrender, he will guarantee their lives.
314 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,200 So they get rights against him being made sovereign.
315 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:16,200 That it is a mythological picture of the state's emergence.
316 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,200 The state of emergency is everyone's war against everyone.
317 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,200 And then the state emerges from it.
318 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:26,200 And the purpose of the state is to crush it.
319 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:27,200 Or counter it.
320 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:28,200 Or control it.
321 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,200 Or administer it.
322 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,200 To keep this civil war down.
323 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:37,200 And Hannah Arendt writes that if the 19th century is described as something.
324 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,200 Then there are two big events.
325 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:40,200 It is the war.
326 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,200 And it is the revolutions.
327 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,200 And where the civil war is somewhere.
328 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:47,200 Is a hybrid.
329 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,200 Or stands between it.
330 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:54,200 That the civil war can be the failed revolution.
331 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,200 It is the same thing with Lazzaretto.
332 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,200 He also writes a history of the 19th century.
333 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,200 During the 18th century.
334 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,200 A number of labor revolts take place in Europe.
335 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:06,200 All are crushed.
336 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,200 No one succeeds.
337 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:10,200 But during the 19th century.
338 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:14,200 He says that the revolts become global.
339 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,200 And when there is a wave.
340 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,200 From 1917 to.
341 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,200 We can take 1956.
342 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,200 1968.
343 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,200 Or 2011.
344 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,200 Or.
345 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:29,200 Forward.
346 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,200 Then you can see that.
347 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,200 It gets an international spread.
348 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,200 And that it is also because there is a fundamental antagonism.
349 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:38,200 Opposition.
350 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,200 Which is never solved.
351 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,200 Which is latent.
352 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,200 Occasionally is.
353 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:45,200 Passivized.
354 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:46,200 And the left.
355 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,200 Which does not exit from it.
356 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:49,200 That the opposition exists there.
357 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:50,200 And thinks it.
358 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:51,200 That if you do not have.
359 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,200 The revolution on its horizon.
360 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,200 Or as a thought.
361 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,200 Then you do not understand.
362 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,200 This violent bruising.
363 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:00,200 No.
364 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:01,200 Is an essence.
365 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:02,200 In that way.
366 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:03,200 It is something.
367 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,200 It is not possible to get rid of.
368 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:06,200 In capitalism.
369 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:07,200 It is there.
370 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:08,200 And so much.
371 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:09,200 Through.
372 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:10,200 Capitalism.
373 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:11,200 History.
374 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:12,200 Goes out.
375 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:13,200 On.
376 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:14,200 Take control.
377 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:15,200 And administer.
378 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:16,200 This.
379 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:17,200 In different ways.
380 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:18,200 Or do it.
381 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:19,200 To a.
382 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:20,200 To a motor.
383 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:21,200 As through.
384 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:22,200 Fascism.
385 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:23,200 Through.
386 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:24,200 These.
387 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:25,200 Contra-revolutions.
388 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:26,200 Direct it.
389 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:27,200 Hanaren's take is.
390 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:28,200 That both.
391 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:29,200 Liberalism.
392 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:30,200 And.
393 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:31,200 Socialism.
394 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:32,200 Or communism.
395 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:33,200 Then rests.
396 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:34,200 On these.
397 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:35,200 Revolutions.
398 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:36,200 The freedom side.
399 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:37,200 In it.
400 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:38,200 That it is.
401 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:39,200 Freedom.
402 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:40,200 While.
403 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:41,200 Socialists.
404 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:42,200 Emphasize.
405 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:43,200 Equality.
406 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:44,200 In it.
407 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:45,200 That it is.
408 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:46,200 But it is.
409 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:47,200 Specific.
410 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:48,200 With.
411 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:49,200 A revolution.
412 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:50,200 Is.
413 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:51,200 The difference.
414 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:52,200 From reform.
415 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:53,200 More than anything else.
416 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:54,200 It is.
417 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:55,200 That it is.
418 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:56,200 A start.
419 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:57,200 On something new.
420 00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:58,200 That you.
421 00:20:58,200 --> 00:20:59,200 Draw.
422 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:00,200 A border.
423 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:01,200 The old.
424 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:02,200 Is over.
425 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:03,200 Here we start.
426 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:04,200 Here we start.
427 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:05,200 Something completely.
428 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:06,200 On the end.
429 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:07,200 Or.
430 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:08,200 Why.
431 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:09,200 That.
432 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:10,200 The revolution.
433 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:11,200 In the.
434 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:12,200 End.
435 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:13,200 And.
436 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:14,200 She writes.
437 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:15,200 She uses.
438 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:16,200 No.
439 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:17,200 Specified.
440 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:18,200 The concept.
441 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:19,200 Of.
442 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:20,200 The global.
443 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:21,200 War.
444 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:22,200 But.
445 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:23,200 She writes.
446 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:24,200 As if.
447 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:25,200 The previous.
448 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:26,200 So.
449 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:27,200 War.
450 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:28,200 Revolution.
451 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:29,200 All.
452 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:30,200 She.
453 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:31,200 Helped.
454 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:32,200 It.
455 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:33,200 Together.
456 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:34,200 The revolution.
457 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,700 or preparation for the resistance of the revolution, she means.
458 00:21:37,700 --> 00:21:42,700 Where it becomes a form of a world war that follows a revolution.
459 00:21:42,700 --> 00:21:47,200 Or what she writes, a kind of civil war that rages throughout the world.
460 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:51,700 A kind of global civil war, although with a little different words.
461 00:21:51,700 --> 00:21:55,200 She means that war and revolutions, they are connected,
462 00:21:55,200 --> 00:22:00,200 but that the center of gravity during the 90s was shot from the war against the revolution.
463 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:07,200 And in the same way, we can also see that revolutions often occur when the war has been exhausted
464 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,200 and not won anymore.
465 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:17,200 And then there is the possibility that after the First World War to the Russian Revolution,
466 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:26,200 when a sovereign, a power has lost its total legitimacy in what is happening.
467 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:36,400 So for Lazzaretto there is then,
468 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,400 in Foucault and all that breath to Negri,
469 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:45,400 in this attempt to see this resistance as productive, constructive,
470 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:50,400 like a multitude that is created, that forms itself, that moves away,
471 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,400 that creates something else.
472 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:59,400 There is only violence as a way to defend itself against being hanged,
473 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,400 against what...
474 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,400 You can take the example of an occupied house.
475 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,400 You don't hit it.
476 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,400 You don't take the house with violence.
477 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,400 You take it into your house, you fill it with activity,
478 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,400 you create legitimacy around it,
479 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:18,400 and then when the state tries to take it back in different ways and storm it,
480 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:24,400 then you have the right to defend yourself, because then the violence comes from there.
481 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,400 No, exactly. I was just about to say that there is a formulation, I don't know if it's in the Multitude,
482 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,400 where Hart and Negri write that violence can never create anything.
483 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:32,400 No.
484 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,400 Rather, it can only defend what has already been achieved.
485 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,400 And this is what Lazzarato turned to, in a way.
486 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:44,400 I think, what we talked about last time was a lot of this destituting power.
487 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:49,400 Negri talks about this constituting power, that it creates, that it is productive.
488 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:54,400 The destituting power builds on the withdrawal or the attack.
489 00:23:54,400 --> 00:24:03,400 But Lazzarato has a kind of interweaving there, where he says that war is productive, destruction is productive,
490 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:13,400 that Schumpeter's creative destruction, that you destroy things to be able to build something new,
491 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:22,400 or that there is a whole economy in this, to destroy things and produce something else in its place.
492 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,400 Yes, exactly. And Lazzarato is in on that, that with the total war,
493 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:31,400 and the collapse of the capital and the state, and science, work and technology,
494 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,400 what we also call state,
495 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,400 the state and the capital machine.
496 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,400 So, speaking of what you are talking about, with destruction, production and destruction,
497 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:44,400 he means that this old Marxist contradiction between productive forces and the relationship of production,
498 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:45,400 is superfluous.
499 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,400 Because he now means that productive forces, especially during the post-war period,
500 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:54,400 at the same time have become destructive forces, or destructive forces, as he writes.
501 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:59,400 And that if previously, in some way, there was some kind of socialist goal to liberate productive forces
502 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,400 from private property, it is now impossible.
503 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:05,400 It is impossible to separate, he means, production from destruction.
504 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,400 Because they are both at the same time.
505 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:12,400 And even if in the post-war period capitalism produced a huge amount of wealth, growth and productivity increases,
506 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:19,400 it was at the same time an enormous destruction of the earth's environment through mining and emissions.
507 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:24,400 And he means that the key to this can be found in the abstract work.
508 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:29,400 That is, capitalism's ability to handle all activities as abstract work, and in some way be able to extract quantifiable value from everything,
509 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,400 and in some way be able to extract quantifiable value from everything,
510 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:39,400 it undermines a total radical equality of the actual content, that is, the value of consumption.
511 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:45,400 I mean that work, just like money, has no smell or a moral charge as long as it generates profit.
512 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:50,400 So it can be a terribly environmental-destructive activity as long as it generates profit,
513 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,400 then capital is equal to that, because it is only abstract work.
514 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,400 And it is the same thing, as he also mentions, and I think we will talk more about this later, with fascism,
515 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:02,400 he also means that the capitalist way of organizing work can also produce potential fascists,
516 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:11,400 just like the Nazis during the Nuremberg riots, who did not feel any kind of responsibility for participation in production.
517 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,400 And in the Nazis, production was death.
518 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:19,400 But I think that today production could be something that is extremely environmental-destructive,
519 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,400 something that leaks out into the river and kills the entire ecosystem,
520 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,400 but that you can always get back to just doing your job.
521 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:26,400 Yes, it is very easy to understand.
522 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:27,400 Yes, it is very easy to understand.
523 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,400 And I would like to add, with just one word, Tide.
524 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:31,400 Exactly.
525 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:35,400 You can see what Tide has done for power.
526 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:41,400 They have not created anything, they have just been sitting here for two years and destroyed things.
527 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:45,400 They have destroyed environmental legislation, they have taken away nature protection,
528 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:51,400 they take away air tax, they take away wind power investments.
529 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,400 It has been to break it down, but it is profitable what they do.
530 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:56,400 Exactly.
531 00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:00,400 And I think that Tide has noticed that they can motivate tax cuts,
532 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,400 but above all that they let in risk capital, welfare capital,
533 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:11,400 they abolish the regulations for them, they abolish the regulations for farmers, forest companies,
534 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:17,400 so everything goes out and breaks down, everything that limits the profit-making.
535 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,400 Exactly, that is the only thing.
536 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,400 And he is also a little involved in this term, the capital scene.
537 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,400 He is not talking about the Anthropocene, but the capital scene.
538 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:26,400 Yes, the Anthropocene.
539 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,400 And there is really a Tide example of that too.
540 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,400 That the capitalist production and its simultaneous productive destructive forces
541 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,400 is what causes climate change and ecological crises.
542 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,400 That it is not in any way human civilization in some form of another meaning
543 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,400 or some kind of inherent self-destructive tendency in humans,
544 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,400 but it is what we are talking about.
545 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:49,400 The profit motive, the development today, is the result of a technology
546 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:54,400 that is based on a capitalist rationality and a production based on a ruthless profit hunt.
547 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,400 That becomes a form of war against nature, which is highly conscious,
548 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,400 in order to enrich the capitalist class, quite simply.
549 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:12,400 So the war is no longer, this civil war is no longer something that the capital needs to hide,
550 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,400 or rather it has made it to its driving force.
551 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:20,400 And he also takes up the central role as the military-industrial complex,
552 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,400 and focuses on university research.
553 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:24,400 Exactly.
554 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:31,400 He thinks about both the technical development, the technical machine, as he calls it,
555 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:38,400 how it is linked to the social machine, that is, the state, society,
556 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:44,400 and becomes a war machine out of this, the composition that is created.
557 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:53,400 And then he sees how it is not only creative destruction that is central to neoliberalism,
558 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,400 but also to create something new,
559 00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,400 but also to create in order to be able to destroy.
560 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,400 That so much research is being put in,
561 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:09,400 to research military systems that will be able to monitor, destroy,
562 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,400 and that it is a productive engine,
563 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:19,400 that it is not possible to ignore in capitalism how central this war production is,
564 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,400 because production is great.
565 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:22,400 For all forms of production.
566 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:23,400 Yes.
567 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:29,400 No, he is talking about the fact that war has become one of the main production forces,
568 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,400 because it consists of some kind of large-scale application of science,
569 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,400 special technology, logistics,
570 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,400 and that it is, as we are talking about, an extremely progressive part of capitalism,
571 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,400 and it is a sector that is constantly expanding.
572 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,400 And there, I think, there is another text about the global civil war
573 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:50,400 that another autonomous Marxist has written, Franco Berardi, Bifo,
574 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,400 which is called, a rather short text, which is called
575 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,400 The Coming Global Civil War.
576 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,400 And there he is talking about the fact that in the current situation,
577 00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:58,400 in terms of war,
578 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,400 it is not only states that are global actors,
579 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,400 but also cartels, defense companies like Blackwater,
580 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:04,400 and terror groups like Daesh,
581 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,400 and that violence as a business is one of the main branches of the global economy.
582 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:12,400 And since we live in an era of financial capitalism,
583 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,400 in their abstract world, no money is discriminated against,
584 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,400 as I said before, they have no smell,
585 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,400 regardless of whether they come from criminal activity,
586 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,400 from dirty war, or whatever it may be.
587 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:27,400 So it is like that it is inherent,
588 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:31,400 and it is also made possible by this abstract world of finance.
589 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,400 When we started talking about this with civil war,
590 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:41,400 I got hold of an old classic by a German anarchist, Hans Magnus Ensenberger,
591 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,400 who left a few years ago.
592 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,400 But he released, I think it was in 1993,
593 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,400 he released one called Civil War.
594 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,400 It was like an answer to Kropotkin,
595 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,400 Kropotkin-Inbördes-Hjälp,
596 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,400 M. Cecilie Hjälp then,
597 00:30:55,400 --> 00:31:00,400 where he sees that the civil war is somewhere
598 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,400 constantly present and can come.
599 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,400 And he writes this after the fall of the Wall,
600 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:11,400 where real socialism, but also social democracy,
601 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,400 ends in a crisis.
602 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,400 And we get these shock doctrines in country after country,
603 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,400 that try to shock a new liberalism,
604 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,400 and we have civil war,
605 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,400 and reunification in former Yugoslavia,
606 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,400 we have pogroms in Germany,
607 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,400 and then he formulates this about civil war,
608 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:37,400 where he talks about the molecular civil war,
609 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,400 that you turn to Hobbes,
610 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,400 where civil war is everywhere,
611 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:42,400 and then comes the sovereign,
612 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,400 and he sees it rather as this,
613 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:46,400 when society breaks up,
614 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,400 when this social peace,
615 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:50,400 that social democracy,
616 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:51,400 welfare state,
617 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,400 still stood for,
618 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:58,400 that it still offered some form of class compromise,
619 00:31:58,400 --> 00:31:59,400 negotiations,
620 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,400 Saltsjö bath agreements,
621 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:02,400 collective agreements,
622 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,400 the Swedish model,
623 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:05,400 social engineering,
624 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,400 it was somewhere that everyone will get it better
625 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,400 if you join Lida,
626 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:13,400 Volvo,
627 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:14,400 Wallenberg,
628 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:15,400 Gyllenhammar,
629 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,400 so let them manage,
630 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,400 divide their production,
631 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,400 make their profits,
632 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:24,400 then this will come.
633 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,400 What is good for Volvo is good for Sweden.
634 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,400 Yes, and productivity will increase,
635 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,400 and then it will also be good for the workers.
636 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,400 And when the social deal has fallen,
637 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,400 that it exists,
638 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,400 then the breaking up of the welfare state also falls,
639 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,400 then he says that this molecular civil war
640 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,400 can start from anywhere in society.
641 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,400 What breaks out in Yugoslavia,
642 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,400 that it does not have to be something that comes from outside,
643 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,400 that it has broken out in the metropolises
644 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,400 and has been going on for a long time,
645 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:56,400 he says,
646 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,400 that he sees it in everything from gang wars
647 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,400 to football supporters fighting,
648 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,400 or insecurity on the streets,
649 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,400 or clutches on the subway,
650 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,400 so he finds these tracks,
651 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,400 just like Krapotkin goes around and tracks
652 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,400 the help of people who help each other,
653 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,400 then he sees these signs,
654 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,400 and now it breaks out,
655 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,400 that this labor war does not come from outside,
656 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:27,400 it is not a virus that someone brings home,
657 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,400 but it is something,
658 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,400 it is a process that goes on,
659 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,400 and it is always a minority somewhere
660 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,400 that starts it,
661 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,400 and starts it,
662 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,400 and then it spreads in society,
663 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,400 so he sees it as a kind of social virus,
664 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,400 that it differs from the 1930s,
665 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,400 where he meant that rituals, parades, uniforms,
666 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,400 programs and promises were needed,
667 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,400 but it does not need this new,
668 00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,400 so that is his way of thinking,
669 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,400 this collapse after welfare,
670 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:03,400 and it feels like,
671 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,400 yes, he did not get it right then,
672 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,400 but to read this 30 years later,
673 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,400 and compare it with the social panic
674 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,400 that is around everything,
675 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,400 from the uprising in Great Britain
676 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,400 to how the right describes it,
677 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,400 for example, the suburbs,
678 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,400 or the Easter parade,
679 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,400 so he has this idea
680 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:27,400 that the labor war is so close,
681 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,400 it has become central
682 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,400 throughout the project somewhere,
683 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,400 and they have no new social peace,
684 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,400 they have no solution to it,
685 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,400 because it is essential for their capitalism,
686 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,400 it is essential,
687 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,400 and the only thing they can solve it with
688 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,400 is to face the labor war
689 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,400 with a total war back,
690 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,400 to take a step forward
691 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,400 to every front,
692 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,400 to throw out, close the borders,
693 00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:58,400 shoot away,
694 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,400 burrow in,
695 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,400 enter and exit zones,
696 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,400 surveillance zones,
697 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,400 increased control,
698 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,400 there are no other ways for them
699 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,400 to handle this labor war,
700 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,400 which is ongoing.
701 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,400 No, and there you can say
702 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,400 that when Elon Musk wrote
703 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,400 that the labor war is inevitable,
704 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,400 it is inevitable because
705 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,400 from the perspective of the capital,
706 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,400 it is inevitable,
707 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,400 and it is they who initiate it,
708 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,400 and there I think of
709 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,400 what Lazzarato writes about fascism,
710 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,400 I think he has a very interesting fascism analysis,
711 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,400 and here I mean that
712 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,400 since the great financial crisis of 2008,
713 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,400 and this subsequent state
714 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,400 of permanent instability,
715 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,400 as you talked a lot about
716 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,400 in this episode of the war regime,
717 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,400 with these correlations in the crisis and that,
718 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,400 he means that globalization
719 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,400 has only been able to produce an identitarian logic,
720 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,400 and that is due to the fact that the capital
721 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:56,400 after this financial crisis
722 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,400 needed to be protected by the state,
723 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,400 and the state in turn can only get its business
724 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,400 of different identities via nationalism,
725 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,400 fascism, racism and sexism,
726 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,400 but he also means that
727 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,400 things like the Arab Spring of 2011,
728 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,400 the uprising in Brazil in 2013,
729 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:12,400 and Greece in 2015,
730 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,400 that this deepens the debt crisis,
731 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,400 but also that there arose some form of conflict-oriented subjectivity,
732 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,400 and which in some way pointed to the possibility
733 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,400 of a crime with the capitalist order,
734 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,400 and even if these different movements
735 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:25,400 in these different countries
736 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,400 were hardly system-threatening,
737 00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,400 the capitalist class was still so angry
738 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,400 that they began to play out
739 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:32,400 these cards that they have,
740 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,400 as we have talked about,
741 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,400 neo-fascist, racist, sexist,
742 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:37,400 war rhetoric,
743 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,400 and that racism became one of the most important tools
744 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,400 to strategically lead this war
745 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,400 against the populations.
746 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:45,400 What he says,
747 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,400 which I had not thought of before,
748 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,400 is that he means that historical fascism
749 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,400 in some way led to the total war,
750 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,400 but the fascism that is growing now
751 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,400 is rather a way to lead a war against the population,
752 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,400 according to the logic of civil war.
753 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,400 And this can take a number of different expressions,
754 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,400 this new-born fascism,
755 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,400 he means that it can wrongly be called
756 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,400 right-wing populism or right-wing extremism,
757 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,400 but what is the red thread is that
758 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,400 nowadays it is national-liberalism
759 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:14,400 and not national-socialism.
760 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,400 Now, when the fascists do not need
761 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,400 to behave in some form of
762 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,400 organized revolutionary left,
763 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,400 you do not need to take into account
764 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,400 the socio-economic demands of the working class
765 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:25,400 in that way,
766 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,400 but in its core it is neoliberal.
767 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,400 So it can not offer any welfare
768 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:33,400 as, for example, Nazi Germany could do
769 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,400 for its white citizens,
770 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,400 but the only thing it can offer
771 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,400 is some kind of illusory national self-confidence,
772 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,400 some kind of poisonous,
773 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:42,400 substance-less collectivity
774 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,400 that you could not see there in England
775 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:45,400 during the uprisings.
776 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:46,400 But the most important thing they do,
777 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:47,400 he means,
778 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,400 is that they subordinate the relationship
779 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,400 between the ruling and the ruling,
780 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:52,400 the owner and the non-owner,
781 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,400 to a kind of civil war
782 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,400 based on an enemy-friend logic.
783 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,400 And the fascists clearly see
784 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:00,400 the stranger, the migrant, the refugee,
785 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,400 the Muslim, as both the internal
786 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:03,400 and the external enemy.
787 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:04,400 But in the same way,
788 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:05,400 they fight at least as hard
789 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,400 to maintain heterosexuality
790 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,400 in the fight against the HBQI movement,
791 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,400 or to maintain the patriarchy.
792 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:12,400 So, in other words,
793 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,400 it is both a kind of
794 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:15,400 poisonous national community,
795 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,400 but also a front
796 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,400 that you fight against
797 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:20,400 enemies that in some way
798 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,400 threaten this dictated,
799 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,400 fictitious, popular unit.
800 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:25,400 And then it is, as I mentioned,
801 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:26,400 the Muslims, the HBQI movement,
802 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:27,400 the feminists,
803 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,400 and the cultural marxists.
804 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:30,400 And all this,
805 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,400 it fits the capital as a glove,
806 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,400 because there is a structural demand
807 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:35,400 on the back of sins
808 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,400 to point out someone
809 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:38,400 for the misery of neoliberalism.
810 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:39,400 Because they will not do
811 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:40,400 anything about it.
812 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,400 And what he also raises
813 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,400 is that we do not own anything today.
814 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,400 We are still a proletariat.
815 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,400 We have debts to the bank
816 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,400 if we own anything.
817 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,400 But the only thing we own
818 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,400 in a nationalist remark
819 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,400 is to be Swedish.
820 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,400 To feel that we own the right
821 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,400 to this country.
822 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,400 And it is a very abstract right.
823 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:08,400 What does it mean to have the right
824 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,400 to this country?
825 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:11,400 Because you cannot buy
826 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:12,400 and sell this country.
827 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:13,400 It is just...
828 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,400 There is no such thing as the right to the country.
829 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,400 But there is still a notion
830 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,400 among people that when people come here,
831 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,400 their right to the country is taken
832 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,400 from people who they consider
833 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,400 not to have the right to the country.
834 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,400 So it is a very abstract threat
835 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,400 what it is that is threatened,
836 00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,400 what it is for property
837 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,400 that should be touched by them,
838 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,400 that should be taken from them,
839 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,400 that should give them
840 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,400 some kind of self-esteem
841 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,400 and value.
842 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,400 That whatever they are,
843 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,400 they may not own their house,
844 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,400 they may not own their car,
845 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,400 they may not be able to have an economic career,
846 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,400 but they at least own the right to the country.
847 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,400 Yes, they have a national identity.
848 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:04,400 Yes, we are Sweden.
849 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,400 This is our country.
850 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,400 That is a very abstract remark.
851 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,400 But I think it becomes very concrete.
852 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,400 You wrote a good idea about
853 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,400 the racist uprisings in England in the evening.
854 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,400 The uprisings were concentrated
855 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,400 in working places in northern England,
856 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,400 in areas that are deindustrialized,
857 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,400 populated and have high unemployment.
858 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,400 But the refugee reception is very low
859 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,400 because the refugees and migrants
860 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,400 who come to England
861 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,400 mainly end up in the major cities
862 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:33,400 of southern England.
863 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:35,400 And then I thought that it would be
864 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,400 quite easy to see that this is
865 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,400 an affect that is somehow connected
866 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,400 to this neoliberal destruction of the society.
867 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,400 Frustration, hatred, anxiety and fear
868 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,400 that got its burning spark
869 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,400 in the terrible knifepoint in Southport.
870 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,400 And that via the extreme right
871 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,400 and its disinformation and hate rhetoric
872 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,400 was linked to some form of fascist enemy-friend logic
873 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,400 where you suddenly saw
874 00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,400 racists and refugees being portrayed as enemies.
875 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,400 And this was nothing,
876 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,400 it did not come directly from a state-controlled heaven,
877 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:05,400 but both politicians and the right-wing media in England.
878 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,400 I have seen a lot of rumours
879 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:08,400 from Daily Mail
880 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:09,400 that really,
881 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:10,400 as an example,
882 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:11,400 really,
883 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:12,400 that they are completely,
884 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:13,400 that they have undermined
885 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:14,400 these racist approaches
886 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:15,400 with war rhetoric
887 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,400 about how much migrants it costs,
888 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:19,400 how they vote at the border,
889 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:20,400 and cause violence,
890 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:21,400 and steal jobs,
891 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:22,400 and that you have paroles like
892 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:23,400 stop the boats,
893 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:24,400 and have really pissed this off.
894 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,400 So it is really just like
895 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,400 a logical follow-up
896 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,400 of what has already happened
897 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:32,400 and the rhetoric that has already been used,
898 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,400 but that took a step further.
899 00:41:42,190 --> 00:41:44,190 Some others who use this term
900 00:41:44,190 --> 00:41:46,190 in the context of the civil war
901 00:41:46,190 --> 00:41:48,190 are the French group
902 00:41:48,190 --> 00:41:50,190 called the Ticons,
903 00:41:50,190 --> 00:41:52,190 which this podcast
904 00:41:52,190 --> 00:41:54,190 has always been about.
905 00:41:54,190 --> 00:41:56,190 Soon I will be done with all their books,
906 00:41:56,190 --> 00:41:58,190 then I will never need to mention them again.
907 00:41:58,190 --> 00:42:00,190 No, but
908 00:42:00,190 --> 00:42:02,190 they have a script
909 00:42:02,190 --> 00:42:04,190 called the introduction
910 00:42:04,190 --> 00:42:06,190 to the civil war
911 00:42:06,190 --> 00:42:08,190 that came in 2001,
912 00:42:08,190 --> 00:42:10,190 and then there is
913 00:42:10,190 --> 00:42:12,190 George Agamben,
914 00:42:12,190 --> 00:42:13,190 who they are a few apprentices to.
915 00:42:13,190 --> 00:42:15,190 He has also written one about
916 00:42:15,190 --> 00:42:16,190 stasis,
917 00:42:16,190 --> 00:42:18,190 which is this term for
918 00:42:18,190 --> 00:42:20,190 civil war in ancient Greece,
919 00:42:20,190 --> 00:42:23,190 like when in the city of Polis,
920 00:42:23,190 --> 00:42:25,190 when different families
921 00:42:25,190 --> 00:42:27,190 came into conflict with each other,
922 00:42:27,190 --> 00:42:30,190 that there was a way to regulate it,
923 00:42:30,190 --> 00:42:33,190 how those conflicts would
924 00:42:33,190 --> 00:42:34,190 occur,
925 00:42:34,190 --> 00:42:36,190 like that stasis.
926 00:42:36,190 --> 00:42:38,190 So he develops a theory
927 00:42:38,190 --> 00:42:39,190 about civil wars there.
928 00:42:39,190 --> 00:42:41,190 And they say a little,
929 00:42:41,190 --> 00:42:42,190 just like Hannah Arendt says,
930 00:42:42,190 --> 00:42:44,190 that there are
931 00:42:44,190 --> 00:42:46,190 a lot of theories
932 00:42:46,190 --> 00:42:47,190 about war,
933 00:42:47,190 --> 00:42:48,190 what is war,
934 00:42:48,190 --> 00:42:50,190 how should a war be conducted,
935 00:42:50,190 --> 00:42:52,190 what is a just war,
936 00:42:52,190 --> 00:42:54,190 and what is an unjust war.
937 00:42:54,190 --> 00:42:56,190 But there are no theories
938 00:42:56,190 --> 00:42:59,190 about what civil war is,
939 00:42:59,190 --> 00:43:01,190 what is the border
940 00:43:01,190 --> 00:43:03,190 between civil war and revolution.
941 00:43:03,190 --> 00:43:05,190 But they have a
942 00:43:05,190 --> 00:43:07,190 completely different description
943 00:43:07,190 --> 00:43:10,190 of civil war.
944 00:43:10,190 --> 00:43:12,190 Yes, they turn
945 00:43:12,190 --> 00:43:14,190 their attention to the
946 00:43:14,190 --> 00:43:15,190 civil war.
947 00:43:15,190 --> 00:43:17,190 They think that civil war
948 00:43:17,190 --> 00:43:19,190 is a kind of basic condition
949 00:43:19,190 --> 00:43:21,190 or something that happens
950 00:43:21,190 --> 00:43:23,190 on an existential level
951 00:43:23,190 --> 00:43:24,190 and that the modern state
952 00:43:24,190 --> 00:43:25,190 is a reaction to.
953 00:43:25,190 --> 00:43:26,190 And with civil war,
954 00:43:26,190 --> 00:43:27,190 they mean,
955 00:43:27,190 --> 00:43:29,190 like Agamben said,
956 00:43:29,190 --> 00:43:30,190 this with life forms,
957 00:43:30,190 --> 00:43:31,190 a kind of free interaction
958 00:43:31,190 --> 00:43:32,190 with life forms,
959 00:43:32,190 --> 00:43:34,190 where there is intensity,
960 00:43:34,190 --> 00:43:35,190 load, political conflicts,
961 00:43:35,190 --> 00:43:36,190 confrontations,
962 00:43:36,190 --> 00:43:38,190 but also there can be war,
963 00:43:38,190 --> 00:43:40,190 violence and civil war.
964 00:43:40,190 --> 00:43:42,190 And that this interaction
965 00:43:42,190 --> 00:43:43,190 and this intensity,
966 00:43:43,190 --> 00:43:45,190 load, it becomes civil war
967 00:43:45,190 --> 00:43:47,190 because there are no separations
968 00:43:47,190 --> 00:43:49,190 between men, women, civil, military
969 00:43:49,190 --> 00:43:51,190 and that the state,
970 00:43:51,190 --> 00:43:53,190 for an unnecessary war
971 00:43:53,190 --> 00:43:54,190 against the civil war,
972 00:43:54,190 --> 00:43:56,190 to passivize it,
973 00:43:56,190 --> 00:43:58,190 to channelize and passivize
974 00:43:58,190 --> 00:44:00,190 as soon as these political
975 00:44:00,190 --> 00:44:01,190 antagonisms are intensified
976 00:44:01,190 --> 00:44:02,190 in some way,
977 00:44:02,190 --> 00:44:04,190 the police are connected
978 00:44:04,190 --> 00:44:05,190 and all kinds of intensity,
979 00:44:05,190 --> 00:44:06,190 irregularities,
980 00:44:06,190 --> 00:44:07,190 impossible possibilities,
981 00:44:07,190 --> 00:44:08,190 loading,
982 00:44:08,190 --> 00:44:10,190 everything has to be fought.
983 00:44:10,190 --> 00:44:11,190 So there is this basis
984 00:44:11,190 --> 00:44:13,190 that there is a constant
985 00:44:13,190 --> 00:44:14,190 contradiction,
986 00:44:14,190 --> 00:44:15,190 but they almost see
987 00:44:15,190 --> 00:44:16,190 something positive
988 00:44:16,190 --> 00:44:17,190 in this contradiction,
989 00:44:17,190 --> 00:44:18,190 that when different groups
990 00:44:18,190 --> 00:44:19,190 are formed,
991 00:44:19,190 --> 00:44:20,190 and they never talk
992 00:44:20,190 --> 00:44:21,190 about identities,
993 00:44:21,190 --> 00:44:22,190 but it's not like
994 00:44:22,190 --> 00:44:23,190 it's about this group
995 00:44:23,190 --> 00:44:24,190 of beggars
996 00:44:24,190 --> 00:44:25,190 who stand against
997 00:44:25,190 --> 00:44:26,190 this group
998 00:44:26,190 --> 00:44:27,190 of motorcycle gangs,
999 00:44:27,190 --> 00:44:28,190 but rather different ways
1000 00:44:28,190 --> 00:44:29,190 to live,
1001 00:44:29,190 --> 00:44:30,190 ways to live,
1002 00:44:30,190 --> 00:44:31,190 ways to be,
1003 00:44:31,190 --> 00:44:32,190 ways to do things
1004 00:44:32,190 --> 00:44:33,190 and to be in each other.
1005 00:44:33,190 --> 00:44:34,190 It's not about
1006 00:44:34,190 --> 00:44:35,190 this group of beggars
1007 00:44:35,190 --> 00:44:36,190 who stand against
1008 00:44:36,190 --> 00:44:37,190 this group of motorcycle gangs,
1009 00:44:37,190 --> 00:44:38,190 but rather about
1010 00:44:38,190 --> 00:44:39,190 different ways
1011 00:44:39,190 --> 00:44:40,190 to live,
1012 00:44:40,190 --> 00:44:41,190 ways to do things
1013 00:44:41,190 --> 00:44:42,190 and to be in each other.
1014 00:44:42,190 --> 00:44:43,190 When they meet
1015 00:44:43,190 --> 00:44:44,190 different ways
1016 00:44:44,190 --> 00:44:45,190 to do things,
1017 00:44:45,190 --> 00:44:46,190 different ways
1018 00:44:46,190 --> 00:44:47,190 to be,
1019 00:44:47,190 --> 00:44:48,190 there is a friction
1020 00:44:48,190 --> 00:44:49,190 between them.
1021 00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:50,190 And those frictions
1022 00:44:50,190 --> 00:44:51,190 are just like
1023 00:44:51,190 --> 00:44:52,190 it says,
1024 00:44:52,190 --> 00:44:53,190 that's what they describe
1025 00:44:53,190 --> 00:44:54,190 as civil war.
1026 00:44:54,190 --> 00:44:55,190 And civil war
1027 00:44:55,190 --> 00:44:56,190 sounds so much
1028 00:44:56,190 --> 00:44:57,190 worse
1029 00:44:57,190 --> 00:44:58,190 in many ways
1030 00:44:58,190 --> 00:44:59,190 in Swedish
1031 00:44:59,190 --> 00:45:00,190 than what civil war
1032 00:45:00,190 --> 00:45:01,190 sounds like,
1033 00:45:01,190 --> 00:45:02,190 because it's just
1034 00:45:02,190 --> 00:45:03,190 that it's like
1035 00:45:03,190 --> 00:45:04,190 civil,
1036 00:45:04,190 --> 00:45:05,190 or conflicts
1037 00:45:05,190 --> 00:45:06,190 in civil society
1038 00:45:06,190 --> 00:45:07,190 or in
1039 00:45:07,190 --> 00:45:08,190 society
1040 00:45:08,190 --> 00:45:09,190 or in
1041 00:45:09,190 --> 00:45:10,190 society
1042 00:45:10,190 --> 00:45:11,190 are all
1043 00:45:11,190 --> 00:45:12,190 like
1044 00:45:12,190 --> 00:45:13,190 very
1045 00:45:13,190 --> 00:45:14,190 tense
1046 00:45:14,190 --> 00:45:15,190 and that
1047 00:45:15,190 --> 00:45:16,190 those tensions
1048 00:45:16,190 --> 00:45:17,190 must be
1049 00:45:17,190 --> 00:45:18,190 discharged
1050 00:45:18,190 --> 00:45:19,190 or discharged
1051 00:45:19,190 --> 00:45:20,190 somewhere.
1052 00:45:20,190 --> 00:45:21,190 Yes,
1053 00:45:21,190 --> 00:45:22,190 exactly,
1054 00:45:22,190 --> 00:45:23,190 so that the state
1055 00:45:23,190 --> 00:45:24,190 doesn't lose control.
1056 00:45:24,190 --> 00:45:25,190 And you can see
1057 00:45:25,190 --> 00:45:26,190 for example
1058 00:45:26,190 --> 00:45:27,190 how political
1059 00:45:27,190 --> 00:45:28,190 antagonism
1060 00:45:28,190 --> 00:45:29,190 in Sweden
1061 00:45:29,190 --> 00:45:30,190 can be
1062 00:45:30,190 --> 00:45:31,190 introduced
1063 00:45:31,190 --> 00:45:32,190 into compromises
1064 00:45:32,190 --> 00:45:33,190 on the labor market
1065 00:45:33,190 --> 00:45:34,190 as we said
1066 00:45:34,190 --> 00:45:35,190 in the early 20th century
1067 00:45:35,190 --> 00:45:36,190 instead of
1068 00:45:36,190 --> 00:45:37,190 replacing
1069 00:45:37,190 --> 00:45:38,190 or pacifying
1070 00:45:38,190 --> 00:45:39,190 wild strikes
1071 00:45:39,190 --> 00:45:40,190 or something.
1072 00:45:40,190 --> 00:45:42,190 In the early 20th century
1073 00:45:42,190 --> 00:45:43,190 people were
1074 00:45:43,190 --> 00:45:44,190 not afraid
1075 00:45:44,190 --> 00:45:45,190 to take
1076 00:45:45,190 --> 00:45:46,190 all the music
1077 00:45:46,190 --> 00:45:47,190 in an app
1078 00:45:47,190 --> 00:45:48,190 for a large part
1079 00:45:48,190 --> 00:45:49,190 it killed
1080 00:45:49,190 --> 00:45:50,190 the file sharing
1081 00:45:50,190 --> 00:45:51,190 and then
1082 00:45:51,190 --> 00:45:52,190 you had to
1083 00:45:52,190 --> 00:45:53,190 pay for it instead.
1084 00:45:53,190 --> 00:45:54,190 They have a description
1085 00:45:54,190 --> 00:45:55,190 here about
1086 00:45:55,190 --> 00:45:56,190 these lifespans
1087 00:45:56,190 --> 00:45:57,190 as
1088 00:45:57,190 --> 00:45:58,190 meeting a friend
1089 00:45:58,190 --> 00:45:59,190 meeting those
1090 00:45:59,190 --> 00:46:00,190 that you share
1091 00:46:00,190 --> 00:46:01,190 lifespans
1092 00:46:01,190 --> 00:46:02,190 with
1093 00:46:02,190 --> 00:46:03,190 that's a meeting
1094 00:46:03,190 --> 00:46:04,190 of those
1095 00:46:04,190 --> 00:46:05,190 that you know
1096 00:46:05,190 --> 00:46:06,190 my power
1097 00:46:06,190 --> 00:46:07,190 is growing
1098 00:46:07,190 --> 00:46:08,190 their power
1099 00:46:08,190 --> 00:46:09,190 when that power
1100 00:46:09,190 --> 00:46:11,110 genom att vara tillsammans
1101 00:46:11,110 --> 00:46:12,230 medan
1102 00:46:12,230 --> 00:46:15,070 att möta en annan livsform
1103 00:46:15,070 --> 00:46:17,210 är att möta någon som man känner att det här
1104 00:46:17,210 --> 00:46:19,130 är, när min kraft
1105 00:46:19,130 --> 00:46:21,170 växer så försvagas den andras
1106 00:46:21,170 --> 00:46:23,290 eller när dens växer så försvagas
1107 00:46:23,290 --> 00:46:25,050 min, att har vi
1108 00:46:25,050 --> 00:46:27,090 både, har vi nassar på
1109 00:46:27,090 --> 00:46:28,930 gatan så vet vi att det kommer vara
1110 00:46:28,930 --> 00:46:30,870 färre bögar och flator och
1111 00:46:30,870 --> 00:46:33,050 muslimer och vänstergrupper på våra
1112 00:46:33,050 --> 00:46:35,070 gator, men går det
1113 00:46:35,070 --> 00:46:36,930 ut bögar, flator,
1114 00:46:36,930 --> 00:46:39,270 muslimer, vänstergrupper på gatan
1115 00:46:39,270 --> 00:46:40,470 så vet vi att alla
1116 00:46:40,470 --> 00:46:42,850 vi kanske stärker varandra
1117 00:46:42,850 --> 00:46:44,870 i den bemärkelsen att
1118 00:46:44,870 --> 00:46:47,290 vi tar gatorna
1119 00:46:47,290 --> 00:46:48,770 tillsammans på det sättet, nu var det väl
1120 00:46:48,770 --> 00:46:50,050 identitets...
1121 00:46:50,050 --> 00:46:52,750 Ja, nu blev det lite, men det är just det
1122 00:46:52,750 --> 00:46:54,590 med livsformen som Agamben
1123 00:46:54,590 --> 00:46:56,710 innebär, att det
1124 00:46:56,710 --> 00:46:58,830 som de menar är att livet
1125 00:46:58,830 --> 00:47:01,030 går inte att separera från dess utförande
1126 00:47:01,030 --> 00:47:02,270 på något sätt, att
1127 00:47:02,270 --> 00:47:04,690 leva kan inte på något sätt reduceras till
1128 00:47:04,690 --> 00:47:06,590 fakta eller identitet, utan
1129 00:47:06,590 --> 00:47:08,710 som du var inne på så handlar det ju liksom om möjligheter
1130 00:47:08,710 --> 00:47:10,530 att leva på olika sätt, om makt
1131 00:47:10,530 --> 00:47:12,750 och att livsformen alltså, den relaterar
1132 00:47:12,750 --> 00:47:14,930 inte till vad jag är som en form av identitet
1133 00:47:14,930 --> 00:47:16,790 utan till
1134 00:47:16,790 --> 00:47:18,130 hur jag är det jag är
1135 00:47:18,130 --> 00:47:20,850 och det tycker jag, det är
1136 00:47:20,850 --> 00:47:22,650 en intressant take för att de
1137 00:47:22,650 --> 00:47:24,810 till kunn, de pratar inte så mycket
1138 00:47:24,810 --> 00:47:27,210 om klass, de pratar mycket om livsformer
1139 00:47:27,210 --> 00:47:28,790 och de pratar inte
1140 00:47:28,790 --> 00:47:30,750 heller om revolutioner
1141 00:47:30,750 --> 00:47:32,890 så att det är lite så här intressant att de säger att
1142 00:47:32,890 --> 00:47:34,750 jag kallar kommunismen
1143 00:47:34,750 --> 00:47:36,490 den verkliga rörelse som
1144 00:47:36,590 --> 00:47:38,910 överallt och vid varje tillfälle utvecklar
1145 00:47:38,910 --> 00:47:40,250 inbördeskriget
1146 00:47:40,250 --> 00:47:42,590 och det låter ju väldigt grovt
1147 00:47:42,590 --> 00:47:45,290 ja, det är den här Marx-paraprasen
1148 00:47:45,290 --> 00:47:46,870 då, att kommunismen är den verkliga
1149 00:47:46,870 --> 00:47:49,010 rörelse som undergräver
1150 00:47:49,010 --> 00:47:49,410 liksom
1151 00:47:49,410 --> 00:47:52,650 sakernas tillstånd i kapitalismen
1152 00:47:52,650 --> 00:47:54,730 och det tar ju
1153 00:47:54,730 --> 00:47:56,410 Lazzaretto också upp, att han
1154 00:47:56,410 --> 00:47:58,930 när han försöker se
1155 00:47:58,930 --> 00:48:00,770 varför revolutionen, varför vi måste
1156 00:48:00,770 --> 00:48:02,150 tänka på revolutionen
1157 00:48:02,150 --> 00:48:04,490 så lyfter han ju det, som revolutionen
1158 00:48:04,490 --> 00:48:05,990 som den verkliga rörelse
1159 00:48:06,590 --> 00:48:08,810 de förhåller sig till samma
1160 00:48:08,810 --> 00:48:10,950 sätt att tänka, bara den ena
1161 00:48:10,950 --> 00:48:12,990 kallar det för inbördeskrig, det andra kallar det
1162 00:48:12,990 --> 00:48:14,730 för revolution, liksom utan att
1163 00:48:14,730 --> 00:48:16,850 klart definiera varför de
1164 00:48:16,850 --> 00:48:18,950 nej, precis, de väljer
1165 00:48:18,950 --> 00:48:20,250 olika termer i det
1166 00:48:20,250 --> 00:48:22,950 men Lazzaretto är också inne på det, i slutet av den
1167 00:48:22,950 --> 00:48:25,030 boken, Capital Hates Everyone, så kommer han in på det
1168 00:48:25,030 --> 00:48:26,930 med, han menar att många politiska
1169 00:48:26,930 --> 00:48:28,790 rörelser efter 1968 har delat upp
1170 00:48:28,790 --> 00:48:30,970 alltså revolution från revolutionärt
1171 00:48:30,970 --> 00:48:32,890 blivande, och det här revolutionärt
1172 00:48:32,890 --> 00:48:34,570 blivandet som bland annat Tikkun
1173 00:48:34,570 --> 00:48:36,550 kan ju ses som företräder av, det är ju liksom
1174 00:48:36,590 --> 00:48:38,810 mer som en kritikunderkastelse, en annan
1175 00:48:38,810 --> 00:48:41,170 produktion av subjektivitet, autonomi
1176 00:48:41,170 --> 00:48:42,950 olika livsformers självständighet
1177 00:48:42,950 --> 00:48:44,430 som vi pratar om, eller omsorg och jaget
1178 00:48:44,430 --> 00:48:46,390 att det skildes från revolution
1179 00:48:46,390 --> 00:48:48,690 som då Lazzaretto definierar mer som en
1180 00:48:48,690 --> 00:48:50,730 radikal förändring av egendomsordning, kamp om
1181 00:48:50,730 --> 00:48:53,170 politisk makt, av de här klassiska expropriera
1182 00:48:53,170 --> 00:48:54,910 expropriatörerna, överskrider
1183 00:48:54,910 --> 00:48:56,710 kapitalismen, och han menar att det är
1184 00:48:56,710 --> 00:48:58,910 motsvart av den här skillnaden mellan frigörelse
1185 00:48:58,910 --> 00:49:00,870 och revolution, där den första
1186 00:49:00,870 --> 00:49:03,330 utgör någon form av flykt eller undandragande
1187 00:49:03,330 --> 00:49:04,610 för olika majoriteter från den
1188 00:49:04,610 --> 00:49:06,150 underordningsludering som liksom
1189 00:49:06,590 --> 00:49:08,470 kapitalismen utsätter dem för, och han menar
1190 00:49:08,470 --> 00:49:10,530 han har exempel med queer-rörelsen och
1191 00:49:10,530 --> 00:49:12,870 feministiska rörelser som har kämpat för det
1192 00:49:12,870 --> 00:49:14,910 medan den andra, alltså revolutionen
1193 00:49:14,910 --> 00:49:16,750 innebär någon form av exit eller
1194 00:49:16,750 --> 00:49:18,170 överskriden av kapitalismen själv
1195 00:49:18,170 --> 00:49:20,470 och där tar han ju exemplet med slaveriet
1196 00:49:20,470 --> 00:49:22,450 att där var det väldigt tydligt att
1197 00:49:22,450 --> 00:49:24,850 att en politik baserad på frigörelse
1198 00:49:24,850 --> 00:49:26,030 alltså att fria sig från
1199 00:49:26,030 --> 00:49:28,770 slaveriet, istället övergick i en annan
1200 00:49:28,770 --> 00:49:30,130 form av rasistisk segregation
1201 00:49:30,130 --> 00:49:32,510 utan han menar att istället så
1202 00:49:32,510 --> 00:49:34,670 hade det ju varit bättre med
1203 00:49:34,670 --> 00:49:36,430 en revolution, och han menar ju
1204 00:49:36,590 --> 00:49:38,450 inte så att han helt bortser från det här
1205 00:49:38,450 --> 00:49:39,890 med det revolutionära blivandet
1206 00:49:39,890 --> 00:49:42,030 utan han menar ju att båda de här delarna behövs
1207 00:49:42,030 --> 00:49:44,330 och att de båda skulle bli svagare
1208 00:49:44,330 --> 00:49:46,290 utan den andra, men samtidigt
1209 00:49:46,290 --> 00:49:48,050 så han har ju ändå
1210 00:49:48,050 --> 00:49:50,510 en kritisk underton
1211 00:49:50,510 --> 00:49:52,310 mot de här post-68
1212 00:49:52,310 --> 00:49:54,310 teoretikerna och rörelserna
1213 00:49:54,310 --> 00:49:56,330 för han menar ju liksom att det finns också en
1214 00:49:56,330 --> 00:49:58,410 gräns för
1215 00:49:58,410 --> 00:49:59,950 vad teori kan åstadkomma
1216 00:49:59,950 --> 00:50:02,490 och där tar han hjälp av den tyske markisten
1217 00:50:02,490 --> 00:50:04,330 Hans-Jürgen Kral som säger att
1218 00:50:04,330 --> 00:50:06,430 revolutionär teori, det är inte samma sak som
1219 00:50:06,590 --> 00:50:07,350 teori om revolution
1220 00:50:07,350 --> 00:50:09,870 alltså att en revolutionär teori
1221 00:50:09,870 --> 00:50:12,250 blottlägger olika maktrelationer i samhället
1222 00:50:12,250 --> 00:50:14,510 medan en teori om revolution
1223 00:50:14,510 --> 00:50:16,270 innefattar specifika
1224 00:50:16,270 --> 00:50:17,530 strategiska principer
1225 00:50:17,530 --> 00:50:20,450 och det menar han, det är liksom uppgift som faller
1226 00:50:20,450 --> 00:50:21,870 på en revolutionär organisation
1227 00:50:21,870 --> 00:50:24,430 och på framtida revolutionärer, så han kommer liksom
1228 00:50:24,430 --> 00:50:26,550 inte med något sånt recept
1229 00:50:26,550 --> 00:50:28,390 för hur man ska organisera sig
1230 00:50:28,390 --> 00:50:30,190 utan det är ju lite så
1231 00:50:30,190 --> 00:50:31,990 på den tonen som den här boken slutar
1232 00:50:31,990 --> 00:50:33,910 han går ju igenom
1233 00:50:33,910 --> 00:50:36,470 han har ju en väldigt autonom syn
1234 00:50:36,590 --> 00:50:39,330 på Lenin och ryska revolutionen
1235 00:50:39,330 --> 00:50:40,950 där man inte säger att
1236 00:50:40,950 --> 00:50:42,730 det var fel
1237 00:50:42,730 --> 00:50:44,750 och vi ska göra på ett annat sätt
1238 00:50:44,750 --> 00:50:46,770 utan man säger att det var rätt då
1239 00:50:46,770 --> 00:50:48,710 men det går inte att
1240 00:50:48,710 --> 00:50:50,410 lyfta över till idag
1241 00:50:50,410 --> 00:50:52,990 vi kan inte, deras lärdomar går inte
1242 00:50:52,990 --> 00:50:53,890 att använda idag
1243 00:50:53,890 --> 00:50:56,370 för Lenin så
1244 00:50:56,370 --> 00:50:58,490 det pågick ju flera
1245 00:50:58,490 --> 00:51:00,270 ryska revolutioner
1246 00:51:00,270 --> 00:51:02,810 1905 och sen
1247 00:51:02,810 --> 00:51:03,950 fram till 1917
1248 00:51:03,950 --> 00:51:06,550 men Lenin var
1249 00:51:06,590 --> 00:51:07,870 att han kunde komma med
1250 00:51:07,870 --> 00:51:10,710 det var en organisationsform
1251 00:51:10,710 --> 00:51:13,030 som var strikt kontinuerlig
1252 00:51:13,030 --> 00:51:14,410 den var baserad på
1253 00:51:14,410 --> 00:51:16,810 fabriken, på fabriksarbetena
1254 00:51:16,810 --> 00:51:18,790 men även på den hierarkiska
1255 00:51:18,790 --> 00:51:20,370 strukturen som fabriken
1256 00:51:20,370 --> 00:51:23,110 innebar, så att man tog fabrikens
1257 00:51:23,110 --> 00:51:24,650 organisationsform
1258 00:51:24,650 --> 00:51:26,710 man tog dess subjekt som den
1259 00:51:26,710 --> 00:51:29,070 skapade och använde
1260 00:51:29,070 --> 00:51:31,110 den för att skapa en hegemoni
1261 00:51:31,110 --> 00:51:32,430 och kontroll över
1262 00:51:32,430 --> 00:51:34,910 hela den breda sociala
1263 00:51:34,910 --> 00:51:36,370 revolution som pågick i Ryssland
1264 00:51:36,590 --> 00:51:39,090 med soldatråd och arbetarråd
1265 00:51:39,090 --> 00:51:40,410 och bonderråd
1266 00:51:40,410 --> 00:51:42,630 och bonderörelser
1267 00:51:42,630 --> 00:51:44,610 och såg till att
1268 00:51:44,610 --> 00:51:46,690 ge den ledning
1269 00:51:46,690 --> 00:51:48,170 och få den att
1270 00:51:48,170 --> 00:51:50,790 man tog och använde
1271 00:51:50,790 --> 00:51:52,830 den här strukturen för
1272 00:51:52,830 --> 00:51:54,550 att gripa makten och
1273 00:51:54,550 --> 00:51:55,690 använda makten
1274 00:51:55,690 --> 00:51:58,130 och där säger han, men idag
1275 00:51:58,130 --> 00:52:00,090 vi har inte, vi kan inte
1276 00:52:00,090 --> 00:52:02,490 kopier, eller använda den
1277 00:52:02,490 --> 00:52:04,190 fabriksorganisationen
1278 00:52:04,190 --> 00:52:06,230 för så ser inte produktionen
1279 00:52:06,590 --> 00:52:08,270 riktigt ut på det sättet idag
1280 00:52:08,270 --> 00:52:11,090 vi har inte det arbetarsubjektet
1281 00:52:11,090 --> 00:52:12,610 den här professionella
1282 00:52:12,610 --> 00:52:14,510 yrkesarbetaren som hade en
1283 00:52:14,510 --> 00:52:16,410 stor kontroll över produktionen
1284 00:52:16,410 --> 00:52:18,490 idag har vi gått till en
1285 00:52:18,490 --> 00:52:20,910 mer utspridd massarbetare
1286 00:52:20,910 --> 00:52:22,710 eller samhällig arbetare
1287 00:52:22,710 --> 00:52:24,970 som är väldigt heterogen
1288 00:52:24,970 --> 00:52:26,370 och differencierad
1289 00:52:26,370 --> 00:52:28,710 det är bara att prata med
1290 00:52:28,710 --> 00:52:30,850 dina 20 närmaste vänner
1291 00:52:30,850 --> 00:52:32,470 och se att ni kommer att ha väldigt olika
1292 00:52:32,470 --> 00:52:34,650 arbetsuppgifter och olika relation
1293 00:52:34,650 --> 00:52:36,570 till chefen och antal kollegor
1294 00:52:36,590 --> 00:52:37,970 och arbetstider
1295 00:52:37,970 --> 00:52:40,910 ni kommer inte hitta en gemensam
1296 00:52:40,910 --> 00:52:42,550 homogen struktur
1297 00:52:42,550 --> 00:52:44,210 i er erfarenhet där
1298 00:52:44,210 --> 00:52:46,150 utan ni kommer att se
1299 00:52:46,150 --> 00:52:47,770 det finns likheter
1300 00:52:47,770 --> 00:52:51,110 vi måste gå och lönarbeta för att få lönen
1301 00:52:51,110 --> 00:52:52,770 vi lyder någon annan
1302 00:52:52,770 --> 00:52:54,690 men hur arbetet
1303 00:52:54,690 --> 00:52:56,670 utformas, vad ni har för
1304 00:52:56,670 --> 00:52:58,930 produktionsmedel, hur ni kontrollerar dem
1305 00:52:58,930 --> 00:53:00,750 om ni jobbar hemma, om ni jobbar där
1306 00:53:00,750 --> 00:53:03,050 om ni måste åka till jobbet
1307 00:53:03,050 --> 00:53:04,850 om ni, hur fritt
1308 00:53:04,850 --> 00:53:06,590 ni kan disponera i tid, allt det där
1309 00:53:06,590 --> 00:53:08,090 kommer att se olika ut
1310 00:53:08,090 --> 00:53:10,290 så det kräver en annan
1311 00:53:10,290 --> 00:53:11,270 organisationsform
1312 00:53:11,270 --> 00:53:12,870 och då tittar han på
1313 00:53:12,870 --> 00:53:16,370 postkoloniala, antikoloniala rörelser
1314 00:53:16,370 --> 00:53:17,330 han lyfter Fanhon
1315 00:53:17,330 --> 00:53:18,270 han tar upp
1316 00:53:18,270 --> 00:53:20,510 feministiska kampen
1317 00:53:20,510 --> 00:53:21,630 och tar upp
1318 00:53:21,630 --> 00:53:25,270 rivolta femminile i Italien
1319 00:53:25,270 --> 00:53:27,610 och ser att ingen av de här rörelserna
1320 00:53:27,610 --> 00:53:29,310 mål var längre
1321 00:53:29,310 --> 00:53:30,610 att ta makten
1322 00:53:30,610 --> 00:53:32,910 att ta makten
1323 00:53:32,910 --> 00:53:35,390 där fanns inte lösningen för det problem
1324 00:53:35,390 --> 00:53:36,390 de ville uppnå
1325 00:53:36,590 --> 00:53:39,230 att sätta en kvinnlig vd, statsminister
1326 00:53:39,230 --> 00:53:40,850 eller domare
1327 00:53:40,850 --> 00:53:43,590 hade inte löst feministrörelsens problem
1328 00:53:43,590 --> 00:53:45,690 och att bara få en
1329 00:53:45,690 --> 00:53:47,730 kolonial representation
1330 00:53:47,730 --> 00:53:49,990 i Frankrike och Englands
1331 00:53:49,990 --> 00:53:51,470 parlament hade inte löst
1332 00:53:51,470 --> 00:53:52,930 de koloniala rörelserna
1333 00:53:52,930 --> 00:53:54,350 utan de behövde
1334 00:53:54,350 --> 00:53:57,410 avveckla makt
1335 00:53:57,410 --> 00:53:59,650 undandra sig från den strukturen
1336 00:53:59,650 --> 00:54:01,390 koppla av, delink
1337 00:54:01,390 --> 00:54:03,590 avkolonialisera
1338 00:54:04,170 --> 00:54:05,590 sina rörelser
1339 00:54:06,590 --> 00:54:08,590 avpatriarkalisera
1340 00:54:08,590 --> 00:54:11,030 som en del av sin kamp
1341 00:54:11,030 --> 00:54:12,330 och där ser han då
1342 00:54:12,330 --> 00:54:14,410 att det här är mer att lära
1343 00:54:14,410 --> 00:54:16,910 för även arbetarkampen
1344 00:54:16,910 --> 00:54:18,590 och sättet att tänka
1345 00:54:18,590 --> 00:54:20,370 revolution idag
1346 00:54:20,370 --> 00:54:21,870 Ja, för att jag tycker
1347 00:54:21,870 --> 00:54:22,570 Lazzarato
1348 00:54:22,570 --> 00:54:25,610 han, som vi var inne på
1349 00:54:25,610 --> 00:54:26,970 lite precis i början
1350 00:54:26,970 --> 00:54:29,910 jag tycker att han förenar det bästa
1351 00:54:29,910 --> 00:54:30,750 från Negri
1352 00:54:30,750 --> 00:54:33,470 som du var inne på, det här med analys
1353 00:54:33,470 --> 00:54:36,110 och klassammansättning och kapitalismens nya former
1354 00:54:36,590 --> 00:54:38,270 och arbetet ser ut
1355 00:54:38,270 --> 00:54:40,290 kombinerar det med det jag tycker är det bästa
1356 00:54:40,290 --> 00:54:42,530 av Osynliga kommittén och Marcello Tarri
1357 00:54:42,530 --> 00:54:44,970 alltså det här restituerande perspektivet
1358 00:54:44,970 --> 00:54:46,750 och den här väldigt kompromisslösa
1359 00:54:46,750 --> 00:54:48,930 kritiken av kapitalismens värld
1360 00:54:48,930 --> 00:54:50,530 men att han samtidigt undviker
1361 00:54:50,530 --> 00:54:52,310 dess stora svagheter
1362 00:54:52,310 --> 00:54:54,170 alltså i Negri's fall den här synen
1363 00:54:54,170 --> 00:54:56,230 på multituden som någon form av immanent
1364 00:54:56,230 --> 00:54:58,270 produktiv och potentiell autonom
1365 00:54:58,270 --> 00:55:00,350 där kapitalet reduceras till någon form
1366 00:55:00,350 --> 00:55:01,390 av parasit
1367 00:55:01,390 --> 00:55:04,490 och i Osynliga kommittén och Tarri's fall
1368 00:55:04,490 --> 00:55:06,290 så deras ovilja att använda sig av
1369 00:55:06,290 --> 00:55:08,290 klassammansättning som jag tycker gör att deras analys
1370 00:55:08,290 --> 00:55:10,030 över kapitalismen blir ganska ihålig
1371 00:55:10,030 --> 00:55:11,150 och hängande i luften minst sagt
1372 00:55:11,150 --> 00:55:13,730 för de har liksom inget fundament riktigt att utgå ifrån
1373 00:55:13,730 --> 00:55:16,530 och jag tycker Lazzarato, han undviker båda de här fällena
1374 00:55:16,530 --> 00:55:18,250 hans take på just den
1375 00:55:18,250 --> 00:55:19,690 destruktörande potentialen, det är ju något han
1376 00:55:19,690 --> 00:55:21,650 återkommer till, det är det
1377 00:55:21,650 --> 00:55:24,190 Revolutionary Rapture, jag vet inte riktigt den bästa översättningen
1378 00:55:24,190 --> 00:55:25,850 ett brott med kapitalismen
1379 00:55:25,850 --> 00:55:28,330 en brytpunkten, alltså att man kan liksom inte
1380 00:55:28,330 --> 00:55:30,570 man måste liksom på något sätt
1381 00:55:30,570 --> 00:55:32,210 göra ett brott med kapitalismen
1382 00:55:32,210 --> 00:55:34,030 det finns liksom inte tendenser där som bara kan
1383 00:55:34,030 --> 00:55:35,690 fortsätta och sen bli någon form av
1384 00:55:36,290 --> 00:55:38,850 som Negri, att man på något sätt
1385 00:55:38,850 --> 00:55:41,250 behöver göra sig av med kapitalet som parasit
1386 00:55:41,250 --> 00:55:43,090 men att kommunismen på något sätt finns inneboende
1387 00:55:43,090 --> 00:55:44,730 i multitudens samverkan
1388 00:55:44,730 --> 00:55:46,850 och i den kreativiteten
1389 00:55:48,070 --> 00:55:48,970 utan han är ju väldigt
1390 00:55:48,970 --> 00:55:50,570 tydlig med det med att
1391 00:55:50,570 --> 00:55:52,710 den här stat-kapitalmaskinen
1392 00:55:52,710 --> 00:55:54,790 det finns liksom ingen politiska autonomi
1393 00:55:54,790 --> 00:55:56,890 han avfärder ju helt vänsterpopulismen
1394 00:55:56,890 --> 00:55:58,890 till exempel, han menar ju att det är helt
1395 00:55:58,890 --> 00:56:00,950 det finns liksom inget utrymme
1396 00:56:00,950 --> 00:56:02,530 för det, han kallar ju nyliberalismen för
1397 00:56:02,530 --> 00:56:05,570 en antireformism, det finns inget att förhandla om längre
1398 00:56:05,570 --> 00:56:05,830 Nej
1399 00:56:06,290 --> 00:56:08,910 Nej, och det är som
1400 00:56:08,910 --> 00:56:10,250 det är som att se med tidö
1401 00:56:10,250 --> 00:56:11,930 vad finns det att förhandla med dem
1402 00:56:11,930 --> 00:56:14,770 de har inte intresse
1403 00:56:14,770 --> 00:56:17,270 de har allt de skulle kunna förhandla om
1404 00:56:17,270 --> 00:56:19,250 och ta dem avvecklar och slänger bort
1405 00:56:19,250 --> 00:56:20,190 Mm, precis
1406 00:56:20,190 --> 00:56:22,810 Men det innebär ju också att de har
1407 00:56:22,810 --> 00:56:25,010 ingen, de har ingenting
1408 00:56:25,010 --> 00:56:27,050 att erbjuda, de kan inte erbjuda
1409 00:56:27,050 --> 00:56:28,310 fred, pakter
1410 00:56:28,310 --> 00:56:29,990 nyliberalismen kunde
1411 00:56:29,990 --> 00:56:32,490 de kunde erbjuda något
1412 00:56:32,490 --> 00:56:34,630 de kunde erbjuda billig kredit
1413 00:56:34,630 --> 00:56:36,790 du kunde få lån, du kunde belåna det
1414 00:56:36,790 --> 00:56:39,130 och du kan inte jobba det fram till
1415 00:56:39,130 --> 00:56:41,150 som under socialdemokratin
1416 00:56:41,150 --> 00:56:42,390 och köpa dig ett hus
1417 00:56:42,390 --> 00:56:44,530 eller du har inte tillgång till hyresrätter
1418 00:56:44,530 --> 00:56:46,910 men du kan få billiga lån
1419 00:56:46,910 --> 00:56:48,390 så du kommer på så sätt
1420 00:56:48,390 --> 00:56:50,310 vara skuldsatt resten av livet ut
1421 00:56:50,310 --> 00:56:51,790 men du får din bostad
1422 00:56:51,790 --> 00:56:54,130 och kanske kan du sälja av den
1423 00:56:54,130 --> 00:56:56,610 och ditt barn kommer sen kunna ha en grundplåt
1424 00:56:56,610 --> 00:56:58,270 för att köpa en bostad
1425 00:56:58,270 --> 00:57:00,770 så att det gav det löftet
1426 00:57:00,770 --> 00:57:02,290 och inte ens det löftet
1427 00:57:02,290 --> 00:57:03,850 kan den här
1428 00:57:03,850 --> 00:57:06,410 nya konservativa
1429 00:57:06,410 --> 00:57:07,590 vad vi ska kalla det
1430 00:57:07,590 --> 00:57:10,430 som tid och är ett uttryck för
1431 00:57:10,430 --> 00:57:11,050 en slags
1432 00:57:11,050 --> 00:57:14,310 ja men nationalliberalism är väl rätt bra
1433 00:57:14,310 --> 00:57:15,870 begrepp för det liksom
1434 00:57:15,870 --> 00:57:20,490 en allians mellan
1435 00:57:20,490 --> 00:57:22,830 nationalism, fascism och liberalism
1436 00:57:22,830 --> 00:57:24,390 på det sättet
1437 00:57:24,390 --> 00:57:26,690 den kan inte erbjuda något annat
1438 00:57:26,690 --> 00:57:28,830 än garden och batonger
1439 00:57:28,830 --> 00:57:30,310 nej precis
1440 00:57:30,310 --> 00:57:32,450 och för att återknyta till
1441 00:57:32,450 --> 00:57:34,230 lite det vi pratade om tidigare
1442 00:57:34,230 --> 00:57:36,010 så att den nyliberala strategin
1443 00:57:36,010 --> 00:57:37,410 är ju liksom inte bara det här
1444 00:57:37,410 --> 00:57:39,250 det är inte bara blodet, det är inte bara våldet
1445 00:57:39,250 --> 00:57:40,830 det är inte bara ekonomin
1446 00:57:40,830 --> 00:57:43,330 utan i högsta grad också en produktion
1447 00:57:43,330 --> 00:57:45,770 eller formande av nya subjektiviteter
1448 00:57:45,770 --> 00:57:47,490 alltså Margaret Thatcher sa ju bland annat
1449 00:57:47,490 --> 00:57:49,130 det där med att den ekonomiska vetenskapen
1450 00:57:49,130 --> 00:57:50,830 var ju metoden men målet var att ändra
1451 00:57:50,830 --> 00:57:52,970 folks hjärtan och tankar
1452 00:57:52,970 --> 00:57:54,810 alltså en form av krig och en subjektivitet
1453 00:57:54,810 --> 00:57:56,990 alltså att efter att kroppen på något sätt
1454 00:57:56,990 --> 00:57:58,210 har erörats genom våld
1455 00:57:58,210 --> 00:58:00,830 på 70-talet man skrev ner, man krossade revolutionen
1456 00:58:00,830 --> 00:58:03,130 då ska skälen eröras
1457 00:58:03,130 --> 00:58:04,850 genom att man mobiliserar affekterna
1458 00:58:04,850 --> 00:58:06,410 ja så enkelt som att
1459 00:58:06,410 --> 00:58:08,710 låta folk billigt köpa
1460 00:58:08,710 --> 00:58:09,990 sin hyresrätt
1461 00:58:09,990 --> 00:58:12,430 då får de en bostadsrätt
1462 00:58:12,430 --> 00:58:14,990 och då blir de plötsligt väldigt angelägna
1463 00:58:14,990 --> 00:58:17,190 om vad ligger räntenivåerna på
1464 00:58:17,190 --> 00:58:18,030 just nu
1465 00:58:18,030 --> 00:58:20,350 och vad kommer en strejk
1466 00:58:20,350 --> 00:58:21,770 eller vad kommer det här påverka
1467 00:58:21,770 --> 00:58:24,470 förmögen i skatt
1468 00:58:24,470 --> 00:58:26,570 kan inverka negativt
1469 00:58:26,570 --> 00:58:28,450 byggs det ett flyktingbord i närhetter
1470 00:58:28,450 --> 00:58:29,890 kan det påverka, ja precis
1471 00:58:29,890 --> 00:58:30,670 att det verkligen
1472 00:58:30,830 --> 00:58:33,850 blir någon form av högerpolitiskt materiellt intresse
1473 00:58:33,850 --> 00:58:34,610 som man försöker skapa
1474 00:58:34,610 --> 00:58:36,530 att det blir liksom att bostadsfrågan
1475 00:58:36,530 --> 00:58:38,230 och det här med att skifta från att
1476 00:58:38,230 --> 00:58:40,250 hyra sitt boende till att äga sitt boende
1477 00:58:40,250 --> 00:58:42,290 blir också en form av
1478 00:58:42,290 --> 00:58:44,370 ett vapen i det här kriget, en subjektivitet
1479 00:58:44,370 --> 00:58:46,570 ja och det är där vi lite
1480 00:58:46,570 --> 00:58:48,090 lämnas med Lasserät
1481 00:58:48,090 --> 00:58:50,150 och man ska väl säga också att de här
1482 00:58:50,150 --> 00:58:51,790 vad heter de, semiotexte
1483 00:58:51,790 --> 00:58:54,350 de släpper en rad
1484 00:58:54,350 --> 00:58:56,470 små böcker av honom
1485 00:58:56,470 --> 00:58:58,550 och han skriver
1486 00:58:58,550 --> 00:58:59,850 i rätt hög takt nu
1487 00:58:59,850 --> 00:59:00,570 så det kommer
1488 00:59:00,830 --> 00:59:02,390 man känner att varje bok
1489 00:59:02,390 --> 00:59:04,370 liksom fortsätter lite där den förra
1490 00:59:04,370 --> 00:59:05,810 avslutade, det som är
1491 00:59:05,810 --> 00:59:07,890 som i Bifos böcker också, att de
1492 00:59:07,890 --> 00:59:10,470 knyter in i varandra så att det är väldigt spännande
1493 00:59:10,470 --> 00:59:11,590 att det här är inte en
1494 00:59:11,590 --> 00:59:14,170 man får en bok med en färdig teori
1495 00:59:14,170 --> 00:59:16,450 utan det är, och det här kommer vidare
1496 00:59:16,450 --> 00:59:17,770 utvecklas i nästa och
1497 00:59:17,770 --> 00:59:20,210 han har ju en annan som kom på engelska
1498 00:59:20,210 --> 00:59:22,450 nyligen som då tar upp
1499 00:59:22,450 --> 00:59:24,410 mer revolutioner och knyter
1500 00:59:24,410 --> 00:59:26,450 till rasism och feminism
1501 00:59:26,450 --> 00:59:28,430 och koloniala rörelser
1502 00:59:28,430 --> 00:59:30,370 där han mycket mer går in
1503 00:59:30,370 --> 00:59:32,230 och jag har inte, jag har skaffat den
1504 00:59:32,230 --> 00:59:34,430 jag har inte under läsaren än, men den är ju en sån som
1505 00:59:34,430 --> 00:59:36,310 Nej, för han är ju, han är ju väldigt noga
1506 00:59:36,310 --> 00:59:38,330 men jag påpekar det, att det som man menar med det globala
1507 00:59:38,330 --> 00:59:39,930 inbördskriget, eller när man pratar om inbördskrig
1508 00:59:39,930 --> 00:59:42,270 så är det liksom inte bara, vad ska man säga, klasskrig
1509 00:59:42,270 --> 00:59:44,710 utan det är verkligen såhär, krig för att underordna
1510 00:59:44,710 --> 00:59:46,310 kvinnor, eller
1511 00:59:46,310 --> 00:59:48,230 utifrån rasistiska grunder
1512 00:59:48,230 --> 00:59:50,050 liksom, rasifierade och så
1513 00:59:50,050 --> 00:59:51,970 och att det är på alla de här fronterna
1514 00:59:51,970 --> 00:59:54,470 som det här inbördskriget pågår
1515 00:59:54,470 --> 00:59:55,990 Man skulle ju kunna säga
1516 00:59:55,990 --> 00:59:57,850 till exempel när det gäller kvinnor
1517 00:59:57,850 --> 00:59:59,810 så att det, hela den här
1518 00:59:59,810 --> 01:00:02,430 som, vad heter hon, Naomi Wolf
1519 01:00:02,430 --> 01:00:03,930 skrev en gång i tiden om
1520 01:00:03,930 --> 01:00:05,850 skönhetsmyten, skönhetsindustrin
1521 01:00:06,650 --> 01:00:08,210 det är ju
1522 01:00:08,210 --> 01:00:10,030 ett sätt, dels att
1523 01:00:10,030 --> 01:00:12,010 tukta sitt utseende, men det går
1524 01:00:12,010 --> 01:00:13,890 via biopolitik
1525 01:00:13,890 --> 01:00:15,650 det produktiva du ska skapa
1526 01:00:15,650 --> 01:00:17,910 du ska själv göra det
1527 01:00:17,910 --> 01:00:19,850 attraktivt, vältränad
1528 01:00:20,430 --> 01:00:21,990 liksom se till
1529 01:00:21,990 --> 01:00:24,130 att liksom marknadsföra det själv
1530 01:00:24,130 --> 01:00:25,850 det är en underordning
1531 01:00:25,850 --> 01:00:28,370 som kvinna, men som inte bygger på
1532 01:00:28,370 --> 01:00:29,770 att bara bli objektiv
1533 01:00:29,810 --> 01:00:32,230 du blir ju subjekt, du aktiveras
1534 01:00:32,230 --> 01:00:34,730 du ska vara drivkraftig
1535 01:00:34,730 --> 01:00:35,310 i dig själv
1536 01:00:35,310 --> 01:00:37,390 och där har vi den här
1537 01:00:37,390 --> 01:00:40,190 Foucault-Snegrianiska sidan av analysen
1538 01:00:40,190 --> 01:00:42,370 är ju gällande när det gäller det
1539 01:00:42,370 --> 01:00:43,990 men ska vi förstå de här
1540 01:00:43,990 --> 01:00:45,870 liksom angreppen på aborträtten
1541 01:00:45,870 --> 01:00:47,890 som sker just nu i USA
1542 01:00:47,890 --> 01:00:48,990 eller Polen
1543 01:00:48,990 --> 01:00:52,430 och angreppen på genusvetenskap
1544 01:00:52,430 --> 01:00:54,290 och angreppen på trans
1545 01:00:54,290 --> 01:00:56,350 och allt som handlar liksom om
1546 01:00:56,350 --> 01:00:57,610 att säkerställa
1547 01:00:57,610 --> 01:00:59,690 reproduktionen och
1548 01:00:59,810 --> 01:01:02,890 diskutera den minskade nativiteten
1549 01:01:02,890 --> 01:01:04,930 att det föds för lite barn
1550 01:01:04,930 --> 01:01:07,010 det är en väldig panik i höger nu
1551 01:01:07,010 --> 01:01:10,150 och det är ju inte en rörelse som är
1552 01:01:10,150 --> 01:01:12,190 den utövas över populationer
1553 01:01:12,190 --> 01:01:13,550 den utövas över kvinnor
1554 01:01:13,550 --> 01:01:16,250 men den är ju extremt repressiv
1555 01:01:16,250 --> 01:01:17,950 våldsam mot kroppar
1556 01:01:17,950 --> 01:01:20,270 den förbjuder med lag
1557 01:01:20,270 --> 01:01:22,190 och ingriper med lag
1558 01:01:22,190 --> 01:01:23,750 eller ingriper med våld
1559 01:01:23,750 --> 01:01:26,170 hur kroppar ska liksom
1560 01:01:26,170 --> 01:01:28,450 få vara och vad de ska få göra
1561 01:01:28,450 --> 01:01:29,030 och så
1562 01:01:29,810 --> 01:01:31,230 där kom ju Lazaratos
1563 01:01:31,230 --> 01:01:32,990 vi får ju inte glömma det här
1564 01:01:32,990 --> 01:01:36,150 kriget, våldet, den repressiva aspekten
1565 01:01:36,150 --> 01:01:37,470 som ligger i det här
1566 01:01:37,470 --> 01:01:39,470 vi kan inte bara titta på det här
1567 01:01:39,470 --> 01:01:42,470 om att alla är instagram-feminister idag
1568 01:01:42,470 --> 01:01:43,670 nej utan att verkligen
1569 01:01:43,670 --> 01:01:44,730 det här patriarkala våldet
1570 01:01:44,730 --> 01:01:46,270 går ju som en röd tråd
1571 01:01:46,270 --> 01:01:47,690 och det var ju väldigt stora demonstrationer
1572 01:01:47,690 --> 01:01:48,510 till exempel i Italien
1573 01:01:48,510 --> 01:01:49,330 var det förra året
1574 01:01:49,330 --> 01:01:50,410 efter att det var en ung kvinna
1575 01:01:50,410 --> 01:01:51,210 som var ute i erslagen
1576 01:01:51,210 --> 01:01:52,690 av sin ex-pojkvän
1577 01:01:52,690 --> 01:01:53,650 ja det har varit flera
1578 01:01:53,650 --> 01:01:55,290 det har varit en rörelse
1579 01:01:55,290 --> 01:01:57,130 som har nu pågått i fem år
1580 01:01:57,130 --> 01:01:58,810 och den kommer ju från Latinamerika
1581 01:01:58,810 --> 01:01:59,650 liksom
1582 01:01:59,810 --> 01:02:01,890 just att
1583 01:02:01,890 --> 01:02:04,170 just att våldet är ändå
1584 01:02:04,170 --> 01:02:05,230 ett huvudfokus
1585 01:02:05,230 --> 01:02:06,570 det är absolut det med
1586 01:02:06,570 --> 01:02:07,870 med skapandet av någon form av
1587 01:02:07,870 --> 01:02:08,870 underordnad subjektivitet
1588 01:02:08,870 --> 01:02:10,190 där man liksom ska hålla sig vacker
1589 01:02:10,190 --> 01:02:10,830 underordnad
1590 01:02:10,830 --> 01:02:12,810 och liksom vara behaglig
1591 01:02:12,810 --> 01:02:13,730 men även det här med
1592 01:02:13,730 --> 01:02:15,650 den konstanta risken för patriarkalt våld
1593 01:02:15,650 --> 01:02:17,830 ja och det är det som lyfter fram
1594 01:02:17,830 --> 01:02:19,590 Melani till makten där
1595 01:02:19,590 --> 01:02:21,710 det var inte den traditionella
1596 01:02:21,710 --> 01:02:23,070 fascistiska delen
1597 01:02:23,070 --> 01:02:25,290 som byggde på att ha en kontroll
1598 01:02:25,290 --> 01:02:27,030 över arbetsstyrkan
1599 01:02:27,030 --> 01:02:28,870 att vilka här ska få jobba
1600 01:02:28,870 --> 01:02:29,650 i Lega Nords fabrik
1601 01:02:29,810 --> 01:02:30,930 till exempel
1602 01:02:30,930 --> 01:02:33,210 det är inte den nu som lyfter
1603 01:02:33,210 --> 01:02:35,450 de lyfter Berlusconi till makten
1604 01:02:35,450 --> 01:02:37,690 men Melani har lyfts till makten
1605 01:02:37,690 --> 01:02:40,850 av utomkatolska grupper
1606 01:02:40,850 --> 01:02:44,650 som kopierar den amerikanska kristna högen
1607 01:02:44,650 --> 01:02:46,250 kring krig
1608 01:02:46,250 --> 01:02:47,850 kring kvinnokroppen
1609 01:02:47,850 --> 01:02:48,690 kring kriget
1610 01:02:48,690 --> 01:02:50,490 kring nativiteten
1611 01:02:50,490 --> 01:02:51,610 reproduktionen
1612 01:02:51,610 --> 01:02:52,970 det är det som har
1613 01:02:52,970 --> 01:02:54,930 som har lyft fram henne
1614 01:02:54,930 --> 01:02:56,530 till makten
1615 01:02:56,530 --> 01:02:58,230 så att säga
1616 01:02:58,230 --> 01:02:59,790 ja vi har ju också
1617 01:02:59,810 --> 01:03:00,250 vi kanske
1618 01:03:00,250 --> 01:03:02,530 började bli klara
1619 01:03:02,530 --> 01:03:03,190 eller har du
1620 01:03:03,190 --> 01:03:04,610 din långa
1621 01:03:04,610 --> 01:03:05,430 du hade en lång
1622 01:03:05,430 --> 01:03:06,570 ja jag fick ju döda
1623 01:03:06,570 --> 01:03:07,610 väldigt många darlings
1624 01:03:07,610 --> 01:03:08,510 från början
1625 01:03:08,510 --> 01:03:10,370 så chockade jag ju Mattias med
1626 01:03:10,370 --> 01:03:11,470 det hade ju kunnat bli
1627 01:03:11,470 --> 01:03:12,150 tio avsnitt
1628 01:03:12,150 --> 01:03:13,470 men sen har jag dödat lite darlings
1629 01:03:13,470 --> 01:03:15,130 men en grej som jag tycker
1630 01:03:15,130 --> 01:03:16,010 är väldigt intressant
1631 01:03:16,010 --> 01:03:17,050 som Lazzarato går in
1632 01:03:17,050 --> 01:03:18,170 mycket på tal om just det
1633 01:03:18,170 --> 01:03:19,190 med subjektivitetsskapande
1634 01:03:19,190 --> 01:03:20,410 är ju det här med skuldsättning
1635 01:03:20,410 --> 01:03:21,450 och det är ju liksom
1636 01:03:21,450 --> 01:03:22,750 en tank han har plockat upp
1637 01:03:22,750 --> 01:03:23,570 från Gilles Deleuze
1638 01:03:23,570 --> 01:03:24,770 och teori inom kontrollsamhället
1639 01:03:24,770 --> 01:03:25,530 där han menar att
1640 01:03:25,530 --> 01:03:26,610 att skuld
1641 01:03:26,610 --> 01:03:28,430 är en väldigt effektiv
1642 01:03:28,430 --> 01:03:29,490 form av kontroll
1643 01:03:29,490 --> 01:03:29,650 som blir en väldigt effektiv form av kontroll
1644 01:03:29,650 --> 01:03:30,050 som blir liksom
1645 01:03:30,050 --> 01:03:32,010 någon form av osynlig inlåsning
1646 01:03:32,010 --> 01:03:32,790 alltså en form av
1647 01:03:32,790 --> 01:03:33,950 osynligt fängelse
1648 01:03:33,950 --> 01:03:35,510 men som blir desto mer effektivt
1649 01:03:35,510 --> 01:03:36,630 därför att det blir så abstrakt
1650 01:03:36,630 --> 01:03:38,470 det berör inte direkt kroppen
1651 01:03:38,470 --> 01:03:40,030 man blir inte direkt inlåst någonstans
1652 01:03:40,030 --> 01:03:41,970 men man blir fast
1653 01:03:41,970 --> 01:03:43,190 i en form av matris
1654 01:03:43,190 --> 01:03:43,650 av kalkyler
1655 01:03:44,210 --> 01:03:45,710 av individuerad risk
1656 01:03:45,710 --> 01:03:47,590 och det styr ens
1657 01:03:47,590 --> 01:03:48,990 liksom beslut och handlingar
1658 01:03:48,990 --> 01:03:49,670 för att man måste hela tiden
1659 01:03:49,670 --> 01:03:51,070 förhålla sig till sin skuldsättning
1660 01:03:51,070 --> 01:03:52,610 att man ska kunna betala av
1661 01:03:52,610 --> 01:03:53,550 sina skulder
1662 01:03:53,550 --> 01:03:55,170 för att bara en sån grej
1663 01:03:55,170 --> 01:03:55,650 som att hamna hos kronofogden
1664 01:03:56,310 --> 01:03:57,370 och man får prickar och grejer
1665 01:03:57,370 --> 01:03:58,190 det gör ju att man blir
1666 01:03:58,190 --> 01:03:58,970 väldigt begränsad
1667 01:03:58,970 --> 01:03:59,590 man kan inte ta nya
1668 01:03:59,590 --> 01:03:59,630 barn och barn
1669 01:03:59,650 --> 01:04:00,750 eller man kan
1670 01:04:00,750 --> 01:04:01,410 kanske inte
1671 01:04:01,410 --> 01:04:02,070 om man bor i hyresrätt
1672 01:04:02,070 --> 01:04:03,570 man kanske inte kan flytta
1673 01:04:03,570 --> 01:04:04,710 till en annan hyresrätt
1674 01:04:04,710 --> 01:04:05,570 för att man blir nekad
1675 01:04:05,570 --> 01:04:06,610 för att man har en massa skulder
1676 01:04:06,610 --> 01:04:08,530 och det kan ju skapa
1677 01:04:08,530 --> 01:04:10,290 en väldigt social kontroll
1678 01:04:10,290 --> 01:04:11,270 och Lasse Ratte menar ju även
1679 01:04:11,270 --> 01:04:12,630 att det finns en moralisk aspekt
1680 01:04:12,630 --> 01:04:12,950 av det här
1681 01:04:12,950 --> 01:04:15,410 att i kring förmågan
1682 01:04:15,410 --> 01:04:16,450 att kunna betala
1683 01:04:16,450 --> 01:04:17,870 eller inte kunna betala
1684 01:04:17,870 --> 01:04:19,450 med begrepp som liksom
1685 01:04:19,450 --> 01:04:21,530 ansvar och skuldkänsla
1686 01:04:21,530 --> 01:04:23,490 och att det finns tydliga narrativ
1687 01:04:23,490 --> 01:04:24,890 kring liksom individuellt ansvar
1688 01:04:24,890 --> 01:04:25,690 hårt arbete
1689 01:04:25,690 --> 01:04:26,610 individuell agens
1690 01:04:26,610 --> 01:04:28,510 och det blir en väldigt tydlig del
1691 01:04:28,510 --> 01:04:29,590 av den här sociala kontrollen
1692 01:04:29,590 --> 01:04:31,250 och han menar ju också
1693 01:04:31,250 --> 01:04:32,310 att till skillnad från arbete
1694 01:04:32,310 --> 01:04:33,390 där man ofta har ändå
1695 01:04:33,390 --> 01:04:34,230 arbetskamrater
1696 01:04:34,230 --> 01:04:34,830 och ingår i någon form
1697 01:04:34,830 --> 01:04:35,790 av socialt sammanhang
1698 01:04:35,790 --> 01:04:36,830 där det ändå finns
1699 01:04:36,830 --> 01:04:37,650 någon typ av möjlighet
1700 01:04:37,650 --> 01:04:38,470 för kollektiv handling
1701 01:04:38,470 --> 01:04:40,430 så blir just den skuldsatta
1702 01:04:40,430 --> 01:04:41,110 eller de skuldsatta
1703 01:04:41,110 --> 01:04:42,430 en form av osynlig gemenskap
1704 01:04:42,430 --> 01:04:43,130 och en väldigt
1705 01:04:43,130 --> 01:04:44,750 avpolitiserad individualism
1706 01:04:44,750 --> 01:04:45,430 liksom att det är
1707 01:04:45,430 --> 01:04:46,970 man blir liksom
1708 01:04:46,970 --> 01:04:48,030 han kopplar även det
1709 01:04:48,030 --> 01:04:48,610 till fascism
1710 01:04:48,610 --> 01:04:49,330 liksom att man blir
1711 01:04:49,330 --> 01:04:49,990 en skuldsatt
1712 01:04:49,990 --> 01:04:50,610 man blir frustrerad
1713 01:04:50,610 --> 01:04:51,210 skuldtyngd
1714 01:04:51,210 --> 01:04:52,150 där är du isolerad
1715 01:04:52,150 --> 01:04:53,430 och framförallt då
1716 01:04:53,430 --> 01:04:54,350 avpolitiserad
1717 01:04:54,350 --> 01:04:54,770 för att det blir
1718 01:04:54,770 --> 01:04:55,950 som en osynlig gemenskap
1719 01:04:55,950 --> 01:04:57,170 och då menar han
1720 01:04:57,170 --> 01:04:58,250 att det kan också skapa
1721 01:04:58,250 --> 01:04:59,370 att man blir
1722 01:04:59,370 --> 01:05:00,450 mottaglig för fascismens
1723 01:05:00,450 --> 01:05:00,890 lockrop
1724 01:05:00,890 --> 01:05:02,170 att han skriver att
1725 01:05:02,170 --> 01:05:03,570 skuldens mikropolitik
1726 01:05:03,570 --> 01:05:04,570 skapar förutsättningarna
1727 01:05:04,570 --> 01:05:06,030 för fascismens mikropolitik
1728 01:05:06,030 --> 01:05:07,670 Ja, definitivt
1729 01:05:07,670 --> 01:05:08,350 och det är den där
1730 01:05:08,350 --> 01:05:09,890 the making of
1731 01:05:09,890 --> 01:05:11,530 indebted man
1732 01:05:11,530 --> 01:05:12,790 den skaparna
1733 01:05:12,790 --> 01:05:14,090 den skuldsatta människan
1734 01:05:14,090 --> 01:05:15,790 den kommer man ju med
1735 01:05:15,790 --> 01:05:17,470 efter den ekonomiska krisen
1736 01:05:17,470 --> 01:05:18,830 den 2008-2009
1737 01:05:18,830 --> 01:05:21,330 den är väldigt bra
1738 01:05:21,330 --> 01:05:22,830 och ska man dra det då
1739 01:05:22,830 --> 01:05:24,130 till kriget idag
1740 01:05:24,130 --> 01:05:26,030 som en annan dimension
1741 01:05:26,030 --> 01:05:27,230 så ser vi ju det
1742 01:05:27,230 --> 01:05:28,970 i nedstängandet
1743 01:05:28,970 --> 01:05:29,350 av banken
1744 01:05:29,370 --> 01:05:31,190 om vilka som får ha
1745 01:05:31,190 --> 01:05:34,390 att man stänger ner föreningar
1746 01:05:34,390 --> 01:05:35,370 man jagar kriminella
1747 01:05:35,910 --> 01:05:39,490 man ska gå på studieförbund
1748 01:05:39,490 --> 01:05:42,290 i hur man använder
1749 01:05:42,290 --> 01:05:44,570 alltså kärnan i hela tiden
1750 01:05:44,570 --> 01:05:45,950 är ju det här
1751 01:05:45,950 --> 01:05:50,810 om den missnöjda skattebetalaren
1752 01:05:50,810 --> 01:05:51,810 som subjekt
1753 01:05:51,810 --> 01:05:53,370 som ska dra ner träsket
1754 01:05:54,030 --> 01:05:54,850 och som gamla
1755 01:05:54,850 --> 01:05:57,830 Sveriges Näringslivs chef
1756 01:05:57,830 --> 01:05:58,830 sa vad får jag för pengarna
1757 01:05:59,370 --> 01:06:00,370 liksom att det är det
1758 01:06:00,370 --> 01:06:02,070 som är deras argument
1759 01:06:02,070 --> 01:06:04,170 att vi tycker inte
1760 01:06:04,170 --> 01:06:05,370 att vi ska lägga
1761 01:06:05,370 --> 01:06:06,470 gemensamma pengar
1762 01:06:06,470 --> 01:06:07,130 på det här
1763 01:06:07,130 --> 01:06:08,670 och sen så är det
1764 01:06:08,670 --> 01:06:10,210 det som ska motivera
1765 01:06:10,210 --> 01:06:10,730 allting
1766 01:06:10,730 --> 01:06:11,190 liksom
1767 01:06:11,190 --> 01:06:12,610 försörjningen
1768 01:06:12,610 --> 01:06:14,150 ska dras tillbaks
1769 01:06:14,150 --> 01:06:14,970 och då innebär det
1770 01:06:14,970 --> 01:06:15,990 att man skapar
1771 01:06:15,990 --> 01:06:19,070 en enorm kontrollapparat
1772 01:06:19,070 --> 01:06:20,950 som du måste leva upp till
1773 01:06:20,950 --> 01:06:22,090 för att vara berättigad
1774 01:06:22,090 --> 01:06:22,850 om de här pengarna
1775 01:06:22,850 --> 01:06:23,810 och är du inte det
1776 01:06:23,810 --> 01:06:25,970 så ska pengarna dras in
1777 01:06:25,970 --> 01:06:28,130 eller kontorna stängas
1778 01:06:28,130 --> 01:06:29,230 eller lokalerna
1779 01:06:29,230 --> 01:06:30,010 upphävas
1780 01:06:30,010 --> 01:06:32,630 eller universitetsfakulteten
1781 01:06:32,630 --> 01:06:33,650 stängas ner
1782 01:06:33,650 --> 01:06:34,630 så att det är
1783 01:06:34,630 --> 01:06:36,830 man använder ju verkligen
1784 01:06:36,830 --> 01:06:40,330 ekonomiska resurserna
1785 01:06:40,330 --> 01:06:42,430 i de offentliga institutionerna
1786 01:06:42,430 --> 01:06:43,670 bankkontorna
1787 01:06:43,670 --> 01:06:45,010 liksom allt det man behöver
1788 01:06:45,010 --> 01:06:46,110 för att överleva nu
1789 01:06:46,110 --> 01:06:49,210 för att repressivt straffa
1790 01:06:49,210 --> 01:06:51,870 och disciplinera subjektiviteter
1791 01:06:51,870 --> 01:06:52,550 Ja men precis
1792 01:06:52,550 --> 01:06:53,410 det blir ju som ett
1793 01:06:53,410 --> 01:06:54,910 det här inbördeskriget
1794 01:06:54,910 --> 01:06:55,970 fast med andra medel
1795 01:06:55,970 --> 01:06:57,070 fast man använder
1796 01:06:57,070 --> 01:06:58,290 den ekonomiska krigföringen
1797 01:06:58,290 --> 01:06:58,650 istället
1798 01:06:59,230 --> 01:06:59,990 och här är det intressant
1799 01:06:59,990 --> 01:07:01,030 att kolla på Sverige just
1800 01:07:01,030 --> 01:07:03,350 att här har ju
1801 01:07:03,350 --> 01:07:04,570 skuldsättningen ökat
1802 01:07:04,570 --> 01:07:05,210 till exempel
1803 01:07:05,210 --> 01:07:06,170 jämfört med förra året
1804 01:07:06,170 --> 01:07:08,190 så har den ökat med 17 procent
1805 01:07:08,190 --> 01:07:09,590 och det är bara att ticka på
1806 01:07:09,590 --> 01:07:10,610 och det blir liksom skuldsättning
1807 01:07:10,610 --> 01:07:11,110 precis som du sa
1808 01:07:11,110 --> 01:07:12,770 när allting dras tillbaka
1809 01:07:12,770 --> 01:07:14,170 så för många stora grupper
1810 01:07:14,170 --> 01:07:14,990 för att man på något sätt
1811 01:07:14,990 --> 01:07:16,270 ska kunna hänga med i utvecklingen
1812 01:07:16,270 --> 01:07:17,630 så det enda man kan göra
1813 01:07:17,630 --> 01:07:19,390 är att öka sin skuldsättning
1814 01:07:19,390 --> 01:07:19,870 och det är ju där
1815 01:07:19,870 --> 01:07:21,370 hela den här utbredda
1816 01:07:21,370 --> 01:07:22,470 konsumentkreditmarknaden
1817 01:07:22,470 --> 01:07:23,810 kommer in liksom
1818 01:07:23,810 --> 01:07:25,270 där oerhört många människor fastnar
1819 01:07:25,270 --> 01:07:26,030 i det som kallas då
1820 01:07:26,030 --> 01:07:27,070 överskuldsättning
1821 01:07:27,070 --> 01:07:28,070 att man får
1822 01:07:28,070 --> 01:07:29,230 en kronisk skuldsättning
1823 01:07:29,230 --> 01:07:30,530 man kan inte betala sina skulder
1824 01:07:30,530 --> 01:07:32,150 och det blir väldigt långsiktiga
1825 01:07:32,150 --> 01:07:32,950 konsekvenser av det
1826 01:07:32,950 --> 01:07:34,450 och det finns ju väldigt många
1827 01:07:34,450 --> 01:07:35,490 unga personer som fastnar i det
1828 01:07:35,490 --> 01:07:36,750 via liksom
1829 01:07:36,750 --> 01:07:38,270 konsumtionslånen
1830 01:07:38,270 --> 01:07:39,830 och e-handel på avbetalning
1831 01:07:39,830 --> 01:07:40,130 och sådär
1832 01:07:40,130 --> 01:07:41,350 så att innan de ens har kommit in
1833 01:07:41,350 --> 01:07:42,130 i vuxenlivet
1834 01:07:42,130 --> 01:07:43,250 så sitter de fast
1835 01:07:43,250 --> 01:07:43,970 i just den här
1836 01:07:43,970 --> 01:07:44,930 skuldfällan
1837 01:07:44,930 --> 01:07:45,870 den här osynliga fängelset
1838 01:07:45,870 --> 01:07:47,590 som den här salaten pratar om
1839 01:07:47,590 --> 01:07:49,370 Ja, jag får tacka Björn
1840 01:07:49,370 --> 01:07:51,930 vi är ytterligare ett kapitel här
1841 01:07:51,930 --> 01:07:53,510 på vägen
1842 01:07:53,510 --> 01:07:54,790 Ja, superkul att vara med
1843 01:07:54,790 --> 01:07:57,270 Ja, får vi återkomma om ett år
1844 01:07:57,270 --> 01:07:58,430 och liksom gå vidare
1845 01:07:58,430 --> 01:07:59,210 i den här diskussionen
1846 01:07:59,230 --> 01:08:00,530 Ja, får se vilket kaninhåll
1847 01:08:00,530 --> 01:08:00,890 det blir då
1848 01:08:00,890 --> 01:08:02,930 Ja, och man får ju också säga
1849 01:08:02,930 --> 01:08:04,110 att du skriver ju
1850 01:08:04,110 --> 01:08:05,330 i allt åt allas tidning
1851 01:08:05,330 --> 01:08:06,110 svärm
1852 01:08:06,110 --> 01:08:08,270 så om man inte vill leta i brand
1853 01:08:08,270 --> 01:08:09,170 och hitta dina texter
1854 01:08:09,170 --> 01:08:10,710 så finns det ju också på svärm
1855 01:08:10,710 --> 01:08:12,890 där du utmäcklar mer än
1856 01:08:12,890 --> 01:08:14,950 med politisk praktik också
1857 01:08:14,950 --> 01:08:15,530 kring det här
1858 01:08:15,530 --> 01:08:16,189 Ja, precis
1859 01:08:16,189 --> 01:08:17,229 och jag kommer även
1860 01:08:17,229 --> 01:08:18,090 jag kan göra lite reklam
1861 01:08:18,090 --> 01:08:18,910 jag kommer även vara med
1862 01:08:18,910 --> 01:08:20,710 i Paradikala bokmässan i Göteborg
1863 01:08:20,710 --> 01:08:22,750 och snacka om just de här grejerna
1864 01:08:22,750 --> 01:08:23,630 och kanske gå in lite
1865 01:08:23,630 --> 01:08:25,670 lite fördjupa vissa aspekter
1866 01:08:25,670 --> 01:08:26,029 och sådär
1867 01:08:26,029 --> 01:08:27,450 så där får ni gärna hålla utkik
1868 01:08:27,450 --> 01:08:28,630 Super
1869 01:08:28,630 --> 01:08:30,210 Tack så mycket
1870 01:08:30,210 --> 01:08:40,319 Rule number five
1871 01:08:40,319 --> 01:08:42,319 You'll never manage to escape alone
1872 01:08:42,319 --> 01:08:43,620 You'll therefore have to start
1873 01:08:43,620 --> 01:08:45,340 by building the necessary solidarity
1874 01:08:45,340 --> 01:08:47,740 To make the game a little harder
1875 01:08:47,740 --> 01:08:49,180 we've liquidated all forms
1876 01:08:49,180 --> 01:08:50,540 of autonomous sociality
1877 01:08:50,540 --> 01:08:52,819 We've let only one thing survive
1878 01:08:52,819 --> 01:08:53,840 Work
1879 01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:56,460 That is, controlled sociality
1880 01:08:56,460 --> 01:08:59,040 This will be what you'll have to escape from
1881 01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:01,620 through theft, friendships, sabotage
1882 01:09:01,620 --> 01:09:02,760 and self-organization
1883 01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:04,240 By the way
1884 01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:06,319 we have made all those forms
1885 01:09:06,319 --> 01:09:08,319 of escaping into crimes
1886 01:09:08,319 --> 01:09:10,319 Rule number six
1887 01:09:10,319 --> 01:09:12,319 We'll say it again and again
1888 01:09:12,319 --> 01:09:14,319 Criminals are our enemies
1889 01:09:14,319 --> 01:09:16,319 But from that you should understand this
1890 01:09:16,319 --> 01:09:18,319 All our enemies are criminals
1891 01:09:18,319 --> 01:09:20,319 As potential escapees
1892 01:09:20,319 --> 01:09:22,319 Each of you is a potential criminal
1893 01:09:22,319 --> 01:09:24,319 That's why it's a good thing
1894 01:09:24,319 --> 01:09:26,319 we keep our lists of the numbers you call on your phones
1895 01:09:26,319 --> 01:09:28,319 And that's why your cell phone
1896 01:09:28,319 --> 01:09:30,319 allows us to locate you at any time
1897 01:09:30,319 --> 01:09:32,319 And that your credit card lets us
1898 01:09:32,319 --> 01:09:34,319 get to know your habits so easily
1899 01:09:34,319 --> 01:09:36,319 Rule number seven
1900 01:09:36,319 --> 01:09:38,319 In this little game of ours
1901 01:09:38,319 --> 01:09:40,319 anyone who escapes their isolation
1902 01:09:40,319 --> 01:09:42,319 will be called the criminals
1903 01:09:42,319 --> 01:09:44,319 As for those who have the gall to protest this status
1904 01:09:44,319 --> 01:09:46,319 we will call them terrorists
1905 01:09:46,319 --> 01:09:48,319 The latter may be shot to death
1906 01:09:48,319 --> 01:09:50,319 at any time
1907 01:09:50,319 --> 01:09:52,319 Rule number eight
1908 01:09:52,319 --> 01:09:54,320 We're quite aware that life among our society
1909 01:09:54,320 --> 01:09:56,320 contains about as much joy as a suburban train ride
1910 01:09:56,320 --> 01:09:58,320 That capitalism has up to now produced
1911 01:09:58,320 --> 01:10:00,320 in matters of wealth
1912 01:10:00,320 --> 01:10:02,320 nothing but universal desolation
1913 01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:04,320 That there are no arguments left to defend
1914 01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:06,320 our worm-eaten order besides
1915 01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:08,320 police flash grenades
1916 01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:10,320 But what do you expect?
1917 01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:12,320 That's the way it goes
1918 01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:14,320 We've disarmed you mentally, physically
1919 01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:16,320 And we have the monopoly over what we can prohibit to you
1920 01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:18,320 Violence, collusion and emergency
1921 01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:20,320 And, after all, frankly speaking
1922 01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:22,320 Would you do otherwise
1923 01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:24,320 if you were us?
1924 01:10:24,320 --> 01:10:26,320 Rule number nine
1925 01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:28,320 You will know the prison
1926 01:10:28,320 --> 01:10:30,320 Rule number ten
1927 01:10:30,320 --> 01:10:32,320 There are no more rules
1928 01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:34,320 All assaults are permitted
1929 01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:36,320 Signed, your government
Källinformation
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- Apans anatomi
Skapad: 24 mars 2026