Bjørn Lomborg, chef för Copenhagen Consensus Center, har länge studerat vilken nytta pengar som går till exempelvis bistånd och klimatåtgärder gör. En del är pengar i sjön, medan andra åtgärder är mycket effektiva. Andreas Ericson intervjuar honom om biståndet, klimatpolitiken och åsiktskorridoren.
1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,780 Det är torsdagen den 22 januari. Jag heter Andreas Eriksson och du lyssnar på Leda-redaktionen, en podd från Svenska Dagbladet.
2 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:22,280 Varmt välkomna ska ni vara till oss igen. Idag ska vi ta oss an minst sagt stora frågor.
3 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:32,940 Hur ska vi egentligen prioritera världens resurser för att lösa de mest omfattande problemen vi har när det gäller exempelvis svält, undernäring, sjukdomar, brist på utbildning och så vidare?
4 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:37,140 För att inte tala om de miljöproblem som exempelvis den globala uppvärmningen skapar.
5 00:00:37,140 --> 00:00:43,340 Vilka åtgärder är det som är effektiva? Vilka är det som ger mest givet vilka resurser man satsar?
6 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:48,280 Och tvärtom, vilka är det som inte gör någon nytta alls trots att de kanske är väldigt dyra?
7 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:55,740 Det ska vi prata om idag och det ska vi göra med hjälp av en person som ni som har följt med Svenska Dagbladets ledare-redaktion känner väl till.
8 00:00:56,340 --> 00:01:02,920 Han har varit en återkommande gästskribent i många år och heter Björn Lomborg och kommer från Copenhagen Consensus Center.
9 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:05,160 Welcome to ledare-redaktionen Björn.
10 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:05,900 Många tack.
11 00:01:05,900 --> 00:01:08,600 Nice to have you on the podcast.
12 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:12,980 First of all, I'd like to quote one of your famous countrymen, H.C. Andersson.
13 00:01:13,580 --> 00:01:17,860 In the preface to a Swedish translation of one of his books, he wrote, and I quote,
14 00:01:18,320 --> 00:01:24,300 Jag håller eke av att danske bör översättas på svensk, icke heller att svenska förs över i vårt språk.
15 00:01:24,740 --> 00:01:34,100 Vi naboer, kone och skole läser hinande i originelle, men det visar sig att detta ännu inte pågår, så översättelser är nödvändiga för många.
16 00:01:34,100 --> 00:01:35,100 And this is...
17 00:01:35,900 --> 00:01:37,300 Unfortunately, it's still the case.
18 00:01:37,420 --> 00:01:39,260 So we're going to have this conversation in English.
19 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:40,320 That's fine with you?
20 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:41,560 It's fine with me.
21 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:43,300 And congrats on your day, me.
22 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:44,780 Thank you.
23 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:47,140 Thank you, H.C. Andersson.
24 00:01:48,020 --> 00:01:51,260 I'd like to start with your latest piece in Svenska Dagbladets.
25 00:01:51,460 --> 00:01:55,960 You wrote it in December about the UN Sustainability Development Goals.
26 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,040 Their deadline is pretty close now, 2013.
27 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:02,960 How are we doing with these goals?
28 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:03,900 Not very well.
29 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:04,620 Okay.
30 00:02:04,780 --> 00:02:05,880 And in some way...
31 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,820 It really tells a very important story.
32 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:13,420 So back in 2015, we did these goals.
33 00:02:13,660 --> 00:02:16,640 So Sweden signed up, Denmark signed up, every country in the world.
34 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:25,180 I don't think North Korea did, but virtually every country in the world signed up to do everything for everyone, everywhere, all the time.
35 00:02:25,640 --> 00:02:27,980 And anything you can possibly imagine.
36 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:32,920 So we promised to get rid of poverty, get rid of hunger, get rid of disease, pretty much.
37 00:02:33,820 --> 00:02:35,860 And get rid of air pollution.
38 00:02:35,860 --> 00:02:39,620 And climate change, and war, and all other good things in the world.
39 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:46,880 And it's very well-intentioned, but we can't actually deliver on all these things.
40 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:52,160 When you promise everything, you'll eventually end up making a lot of people feel really let down.
41 00:02:52,700 --> 00:02:56,320 So what we did was we promised way too much.
42 00:02:56,420 --> 00:03:04,020 And we didn't give a thought about what can we do at realistic costs, and what can we do first.
43 00:03:04,020 --> 00:03:05,020 If we can't do everything...
44 00:03:05,860 --> 00:03:09,320 We should have a conversation about where should we start, what should we do first.
45 00:03:09,740 --> 00:03:10,180 Okay.
46 00:03:11,140 --> 00:03:12,420 Just a piece of background.
47 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:16,380 There were earlier UN goals, the Millennium Goals, and we did quite well, didn't we?
48 00:03:16,640 --> 00:03:17,040 We did.
49 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:18,160 We did a lot better.
50 00:03:18,920 --> 00:03:20,960 And it's a cautionary tale.
51 00:03:21,140 --> 00:03:25,380 So in 2000, the UN did the Millennium Development Goals.
52 00:03:26,140 --> 00:03:29,480 And in reality, it was just really seven goals.
53 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:31,260 And they were all very simple.
54 00:03:31,580 --> 00:03:32,920 Get people out of poverty.
55 00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:34,880 So it was more than half.
56 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,500 The global population of poverty.
57 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,240 Get moms and kids to not die.
58 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:42,980 Get people out of starvation.
59 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:47,060 Get more trees or less deforestation.
60 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:48,420 And a few others.
61 00:03:48,780 --> 00:03:50,700 Oh, get all kids into schools.
62 00:03:51,100 --> 00:03:53,020 So these were very simple things.
63 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:58,260 And surprisingly and quite encouragingly, we managed to do a lot of them.
64 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,800 We didn't manage to do all of them, but we really got a far way.
65 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,800 And the reason is we picked a few goals.
66 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:13,120 And we picked really smart goals, meaning goals that are fairly cheap to do and that are obvious that we need to do first.
67 00:04:13,420 --> 00:04:19,860 So instead of promising everything to everyone, we promised a few very specific things and we actually managed to do a lot of it.
68 00:04:20,079 --> 00:04:22,240 That's what we should have done in 2015.
69 00:04:22,460 --> 00:04:25,740 And of course, that's why we're failing badly here in 2026.
70 00:04:25,980 --> 00:04:28,000 So simply put, we overreached.
71 00:04:28,280 --> 00:04:29,180 Yes, yes.
72 00:04:29,180 --> 00:04:33,740 And, you know, it's not surprising if you ask everyone, what do you want to do?
73 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:34,760 And there's no.
74 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,900 You obviously want to say, well, we should do all good things.
75 00:04:38,900 --> 00:04:40,660 And that was essentially what happened.
76 00:04:40,940 --> 00:04:47,600 So this was set by about 80 UN ambassadors in New York over a period of about a year.
77 00:04:48,180 --> 00:04:52,680 And I went to meet with a lot of them, about a third of them individually in New York.
78 00:04:52,980 --> 00:04:57,240 And I tried to tell them, please, please, please don't promise everything to everyone.
79 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:01,360 But of course, their goal was just to put in as many nice words in the document.
80 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,760 It's a really long and very boring document.
81 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:08,100 But the reality is when you promise everything to everyone, you will fail.
82 00:05:08,580 --> 00:05:15,580 And right now we are on the schedule, on the timetable with about 20 percent of them, I think.
83 00:05:15,780 --> 00:05:16,060 Yes.
84 00:05:16,180 --> 00:05:21,100 And there are some who is stagnant and some are moving backwards, actually.
85 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:21,460 Yes.
86 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:21,700 Yes.
87 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:26,680 So there is one measure of how well we're doing.
88 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,020 And it's very, very hard to do because it's so many different targets.
89 00:05:30,020 --> 00:05:33,020 But it seems to indicate that right now we're going to be 50%.
90 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:34,460 We're going to be 50 years late.
91 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:38,660 We're going to be done in 2089 instead of 2030.
92 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:40,720 So, yeah, we're a little behind.
93 00:05:41,740 --> 00:05:45,980 And one of your main argument is that we need to get our priorities right.
94 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:53,240 We have to, given the limited resources, where can every penny do the most good?
95 00:05:54,140 --> 00:05:58,620 And what is the answer to that when it comes to a cost-benefit analysis?
96 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,760 So I actually just gave you a book that gives you that answer.
97 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:03,540 That answer.
98 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:04,320 I have it in my hand.
99 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:04,640 Yes.
100 00:06:04,780 --> 00:06:10,940 So we worked together with more than 100 economists, world's top economists and several Nobel laureates,
101 00:06:11,060 --> 00:06:17,120 to try to figure out, of all the things we promised, which ones can you spend a kronor,
102 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:23,380 or more realistically, a couple hundred million kronor, and do the most good for every kronor spent?
103 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:25,360 And this should be an obvious thing, right?
104 00:06:25,420 --> 00:06:28,820 I mean, we do this all the time in our private lives.
105 00:06:28,820 --> 00:06:33,600 I don't know your life, but I'm assuming that your kids want a new bike.
106 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:35,440 And you also want to go on a vacation.
107 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:36,760 And maybe the roof is leaking.
108 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:38,120 And there's all kinds of things.
109 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:42,400 And you always have to make hard choices with your limited resources.
110 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:44,320 Again, I'm assuming you're not a billionaire.
111 00:06:45,260 --> 00:06:46,760 No, I'm not.
112 00:06:47,540 --> 00:06:50,980 So we have to make tough choices.
113 00:06:51,300 --> 00:06:53,140 And so we look at how much is the benefit?
114 00:06:53,300 --> 00:06:54,460 How much is this going to cost?
115 00:06:54,460 --> 00:07:00,240 And we make sort of a fairly simple equation of where can I get the most bang for my kronor?
116 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,740 And this is also what we teach our kids.
117 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,640 If you want a new bike, you want new Pokemon cards, whatever.
118 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,500 Well, do an analysis.
119 00:07:09,620 --> 00:07:10,420 Cost benefit analysis.
120 00:07:12,900 --> 00:07:15,740 Landebo hjälper dig att ta kontroll över din framtid.
121 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:20,380 Låt dina pengar växa i din takt på ett sätt som gör morgondagen ljusare.
122 00:07:21,220 --> 00:07:24,920 Landebos erfarna kapital- och relationsförvaltare står redo att guida dig.
123 00:07:25,220 --> 00:07:27,640 Men kom ihåg att investeringar innebär en risk.
124 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,540 Upptäck hela vårt fondutbud på landebo.se.
125 00:07:34,090 --> 00:07:36,890 Detta meddelande riktar sig till dig som är över 25 år
126 00:07:36,890 --> 00:07:38,430 och redan använder nikotinprodukter.
127 00:07:38,590 --> 00:07:41,530 Vitt snus innehåller nikotin som är ett mycket beroendeframkallande ämne.
128 00:07:41,690 --> 00:07:45,170 Snusbolaget.se är Sveriges största e-handel för vitt snus.
129 00:07:45,610 --> 00:07:49,730 På snusbolaget.se hittar du enkelt ditt snus bland över 600 smaker
130 00:07:49,730 --> 00:07:52,950 och många kunder kan få doserna levererade redan nästa dag.
131 00:07:53,190 --> 00:07:56,450 Beställ smartare på snusbolaget.se.
132 00:07:58,750 --> 00:08:00,970 Du, jag skriver en pie.
133 00:08:02,250 --> 00:08:03,750 Men gud, så gott.
134 00:08:03,950 --> 00:08:06,710 Tänker du också på en krämegonst skinkpie
135 00:08:06,710 --> 00:08:08,410 eller någon annan av Felix goda löten?
136 00:08:08,430 --> 00:08:11,250 Felix, alltid lite godare.
137 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:44,320 Så vi tittar både på finansiella fördelar
138 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,760 men vi tittar också på miljö- och sociala fördelar.
139 00:08:47,900 --> 00:08:48,960 Folk som inte dör, till exempel.
140 00:08:49,620 --> 00:08:52,780 Men de här är de bästa sakerna vi kan göra
141 00:08:52,780 --> 00:08:55,580 och vi identifierade 12 av dessa saker.
142 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:59,440 Så låt mig ge dig några exempel från boken
143 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:00,680 och från analysen.
144 00:09:01,220 --> 00:09:03,620 Det berättar dig, till exempel, att vi kan göra
145 00:09:03,620 --> 00:09:07,380 en enorm mängd bra för matern och nybörjande hälsa.
146 00:09:07,380 --> 00:09:10,880 Så en av de sakerna vi inte tänker på här i den rika världen är,
147 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,720 att den mest farliga dagarna i en kvinnors liv
148 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,720 i de flesta av världen, är den dag hon föds.
149 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:19,720 Det är helt galet.
150 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,920 Det var så här här, men det är inte längre så.
151 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:24,720 För vi vet hur vi ska förhandla det här.
152 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:25,920 Hur ska vi förhandla det?
153 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,920 Vi har faktiskt en väldigt billig sätt att förhandla de flesta av det.
154 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,720 Du måste få kvinnan in i en utbildning.
155 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,720 För de flesta födelser går bra.
156 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:38,400 Men om de går fel, så går de ofta dramatiskt fel.
157 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,400 Så du måste vara i en institution så att du kan förhandla detta.
158 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:45,000 Och om du är där, så måste du också ha väldigt enkelt saker som
159 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,400 fri vatten, antiseptiker.
160 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,400 Du måste ha en resuscitator om barnen inte kan forna.
161 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,400 Det händer faktiskt att även här i Europa,
162 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,400 ungefär 5 % av alla barn inte fornar.
163 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,400 De behöver positiv luftpressur, en liten ballong,
164 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:00,400 i deras lungor.
165 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:02,400 Det är ett väldigt enkelt procedur, men om du inte har det,
166 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:04,400 så kommer barnen att dö.
167 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,400 Det vi hittar är, och det är en väldigt enkelt sak,
168 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:09,400 en väldigt billig sak att göra också,
169 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,400 som World Health Organization förväntar sig att alla borde göra.
170 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,400 Om vi kunde gå från ungefär två tredjedelar av alla kvinnor
171 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:17,400 som går in i institutioner till 90 %
172 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,400 och de här institutionerna var lite bättre utrustade.
173 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,400 Vi pratar inte om fantastiska sjukhus,
174 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,400 vi pratar bara om lite bättre.
175 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,400 Vi förväntar oss för ungefär 3 biljoner dollar per år.
176 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:30,400 Så inte något, inte något du eller jag har,
177 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:34,400 men en väldigt liten mängd pengar i internationellt område.
178 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:36,400 För 3 biljoner dollar per år,
179 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:41,400 så skulle vi kunna skapa 166 000 mamma som dör varje år.
180 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,400 Det är mer än hälften av alla mamma som dör varje år.
181 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,400 Och vi skulle kunna skapa 1,2 miljoner barn.
182 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:49,400 Det här är bara en av de bästa sakerna vi kan göra.
183 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:51,400 Vi förväntar oss för varje krona som är betalt.
184 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,400 Du kan göra 87 kronor tillgängligt.
185 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,400 Och det här är bara en av de 12 sakerna.
186 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,400 Vi tittar på utbildning, till exempel,
187 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,400 där du kan göra väldigt enkelt och effektivt saker
188 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:04,400 som för ganska lite pengar,
189 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,400 tillgängligt för mycket bättre utbildade barn.
190 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,400 Vi kan kanske tala om det.
191 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,400 Vi kan tala om tuberkulosis, malaria,
192 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,400 tydliga sjukdomar för att ta hand om vaccineringar.
193 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,400 Men det är också något om att göra så att människor
194 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:19,400 har fler möjligheter i dåliga världar,
195 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,400 som landtänjereform.
196 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:23,400 Så för de flesta människor,
197 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,400 de arbetar i akrokulturen.
198 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,400 Och många vet inte om de faktiskt äger landet,
199 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,400 för det finns inget bra landregistering.
200 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,400 Ungefär en biljon människor på planeten
201 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:34,400 tror att de i de nästa 5 åren
202 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,400 kommer att bli utbyggda av landet.
203 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:37,400 Om du tänker så,
204 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,400 så kommer du inte att diga en vägg,
205 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:40,400 eller göra irrigation,
206 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:41,400 eller planera orkester,
207 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,400 så att trädet bara kommer att blomna
208 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,400 och ge frukt i 5-10 år.
209 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,400 Du kommer bara att göra vad du kan
210 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:48,400 för nästa år.
211 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,400 I svenska kallar vi det
212 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:53,400 lågt hängande frukt.
213 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,400 Ja, lågt hängande frukt.
214 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,400 Varför är det inte redan gjort?
215 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:00,400 Den korta svaren är att
216 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:02,400 lite av det är redan gjort,
217 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:04,400 men det är för att vi är tillbaka
218 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:05,400 till det här.
219 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:06,400 Vi vill göra allt.
220 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:08,400 Så när du pratar med många politiker
221 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:09,400 de gillar att säga
222 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:11,400 jag vill göra alla goda saker,
223 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:13,400 för det låter som om de gör mer.
224 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:14,400 Så de säger
225 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,400 jag vill göra något
226 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,400 som hjälper kvinnor.
227 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:19,400 Men jag vill också hjälpa
228 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:21,400 att råda kvinnor.
229 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:22,400 Jag vill också hjälpa dem
230 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,400 med barn.
231 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:25,400 Och kanske vi vill se till
232 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:27,400 att de är indigna människor.
233 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:28,400 Och kanske vi vill se till
234 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:29,400 att de är illiterata.
235 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:31,400 Du lägger upp alla dessa klockor
236 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:32,400 och du tar alla dessa olika saker
237 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:33,400 och så blir du
238 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,400 något som låter bra
239 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:36,400 och som ser bra
240 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:37,400 i pressreportaget
241 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:38,400 men som inte är så effektivt.
242 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,400 När du säger till exempel
243 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:41,400 som jag nämnde
244 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:42,400 att vi behöver
245 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:43,400 det som World Health Organization
246 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:44,400 kallar för B-Monks
247 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,400 eller basic emergency obstetric
248 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:47,400 och newborn care
249 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:48,400 i sjukhus
250 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:49,400 och få kvinnor
251 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:50,400 in i institutioner
252 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:51,400 för att ge födda.
253 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:52,400 Det låter inte så sexigt
254 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,400 och det är bara en sak.
255 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:55,400 Så du vill
256 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:56,400 ta många klockor.
257 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:57,400 Du vill få många nyheter
258 00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:58,400 att slå ut.
259 00:12:58,400 --> 00:12:59,400 Så du slår ut
260 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,400 lite av allt
261 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:02,400 precis som
262 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:04,400 Sustainable Development Goals gjorde.
263 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:05,400 Ja, rätt.
264 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:06,400 Och på andra sidan
265 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:07,400 av spektrumet
266 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:08,400 finns det saker
267 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:09,400 som görs idag
268 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:10,400 som är tålbara
269 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:11,400 men inte så bra
270 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:12,400 när du
271 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:13,400 examinerar dem?
272 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:14,400 Ja.
273 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:15,400 Vi gör
274 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:16,400 många saker
275 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:17,400 som är
276 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:18,400 lite bra.
277 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:19,400 Jag är säker på
278 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:20,400 att vi också gör
279 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:21,400 saker som är
280 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:22,400 väldigt, väldigt dåliga
281 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:23,400 men vi tittar inte på dem.
282 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:24,400 Så vi tittar typiskt på
283 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:25,400 saker som är
284 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:26,400 tillräckligt bra.
285 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:27,400 Så vi hittar
286 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:28,400 att det finns
287 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:29,400 många saker
288 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:30,400 som du kan göra
289 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:31,400 som tillverar
290 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:32,400 två, tre, fyra
291 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:33,400 hundra klockor
292 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:34,400 tillbaka i kronan.
293 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:35,400 Det är en fin sak.
294 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:36,400 Och jag är glad
295 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:37,400 att vi gör det.
296 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:38,400 En tydlig sak
297 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:39,400 som vi har haft många
298 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:40,400 konversationer med
299 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:41,400 indierna om
300 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:42,400 är vatten
301 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:43,400 och sanitering.
302 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:44,400 Så många människor
303 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:45,400 säger att det här
304 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:46,400 är en av de
305 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:47,400 mest viktiga
306 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:48,400 saker att göra
307 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:49,400 för tyvärr
308 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:50,400 om du inte har vatten
309 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:51,400 så dör du.
310 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:52,400 Men det här
311 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:53,400 är också
312 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:54,400 varför alla
313 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:55,400 som lever i världen
314 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:56,400 faktiskt har vatten.
315 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:57,400 Så när du
316 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:58,400 pratar om att
317 00:13:58,400 --> 00:13:59,400 få mer vatten
318 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:00,400 så handlar det
319 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:01,400 mycket mer om
320 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:02,400 att få mer
321 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:03,400 vatten.
322 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:04,400 Och det är
323 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:05,400 väldigt viktigt
324 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:06,400 att få vatten
325 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:07,400 eftersom det
326 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:08,400 betyder
327 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:09,400 att särskilt
328 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:10,400 kvinnor
329 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:11,400 särskilt
330 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:12,400 kvinnor
331 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:13,400 inte måste
332 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:14,400 åka långt
333 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:15,400 för att
334 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:16,400 ta vatten
335 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:17,400 tillbaka
336 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:18,400 så att
337 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:19,400 mamma och
338 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:20,400 pappa
339 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:21,400 kan använda det.
340 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:22,400 Men
341 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:23,400 om vi tittar
342 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:24,400 på kostnaderna
343 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:25,400 särskilt
344 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:26,400 om vi tittar
345 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:27,400 på sanitering
346 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:28,400 som blir
347 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:29,400 väldigt kall
348 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:30,400 om vi vill
349 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:31,400 hålla den
350 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:32,400 så är det
351 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:33,400 väldigt bra.
352 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:34,400 Och många
353 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:35,400 av dessa
354 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:36,400 är inte
355 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:37,400 gjorda bra.
356 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:38,400 Så du
357 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:39,400 kan bara
358 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:40,400 hitta en
359 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:41,400 liten
360 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:42,400 lager
361 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:43,400 för att
362 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:44,400 berätta till
363 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:45,400 regeringen
364 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:46,400 och kanske
365 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:47,400 berätta till
366 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:48,400 de svenska
367 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:49,400 regeringarna
368 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:50,400 också.
369 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:51,400 Vi har gjort något
370 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:52,400 för sanitering
371 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:53,400 så du måste
372 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:54,400 ha en
373 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:55,400 insats
374 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:56,400 men den
375 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:57,400 är aldrig
376 00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:58,400 använda
377 00:14:58,400 --> 00:14:59,400 för att det
378 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:00,400 smäller
379 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:01,400 men om vi
380 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:02,400 inte har
381 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:03,400 tillräckligt
382 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:04,400 resurser
383 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:05,400 så kanske
384 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:06,400 vi ska fokusera
385 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:07,400 på att göra
386 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:08,400 de
387 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:09,400 otroligt
388 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:10,400 goda
389 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:11,400 sakerna
390 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:12,400 först.
391 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:13,400 Hur familiar
392 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:14,400 är du
393 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:15,400 med
394 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:16,400 de
395 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:17,400 politikerna
396 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:18,400 i
397 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:19,400 Sverige?
398 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:20,400 Jag bor
399 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:21,400 i
400 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:22,400 södra
401 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:23,400 Sverige
402 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:24,400 på
403 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:25,400 andra
404 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:26,400 sidan
405 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:27,400 av
406 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:28,400 Copenhagen.
407 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:29,400 Jag vet
408 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:30,400 inte om
409 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:31,400 du är
410 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:32,400 en politiker
411 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:33,400 eller
412 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:34,400 är du
413 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:35,400 politiker?
414 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:36,400 Jag är
415 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:37,400 politiker
416 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:38,400 och jag
417 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:39,400 har haft
418 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:40,400 den
419 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:41,400 uppmärksamheten
420 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:42,400 i
421 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:43,400 förra års
422 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:44,400 och jag
423 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:45,400 gav honom
424 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:46,400 boken
425 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:47,400 och han
426 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:48,400 gillade
427 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:49,400 den
428 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:50,400 idéen
429 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:51,400 men
430 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:52,400 han är också
431 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:53,400 politiker.
432 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:54,400 Så du
433 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:55,400 gav honom
434 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:56,400 den
435 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:57,400 korta versionen?
436 00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:58,400 Jag gav honom
437 00:15:58,400 --> 00:15:59,400 den.
438 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:00,400 Han gillade
439 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:01,400 att göra
440 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:02,400 effektiva
441 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:03,400 politiker.
442 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:04,400 Han
443 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:05,400 instruerade
444 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:06,400 CETA
445 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:07,400 att
446 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:08,400 spara
447 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:09,400 mer
448 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:10,400 effektivt.
449 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:11,400 Men det finns
450 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:12,400 också
451 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:13,400 andra
452 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:14,400 pushar.
453 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:15,400 Vi får
454 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:16,400 det
455 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:17,400 från
456 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:18,400 Europa,
457 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:19,400 Kanada,
458 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:20,400 Australien
459 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:21,400 och
460 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:22,400 Nya Zeeland.
461 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:23,400 Alla
462 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:24,400 rika
463 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:25,400 länder.
464 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:26,400 Men även
465 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:27,400 i andra
466 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:28,400 området.
467 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:29,400 Vi har
468 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:30,400 mycket
469 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:31,400 pengar på
470 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:32,400 Ukraina,
471 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:33,400 området
472 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:34,400 med
473 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:35,400 rådgivare.
474 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:36,400 Så
475 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:37,400 pengarna som
476 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:38,400 faktiskt
477 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:39,400 går till
478 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:40,400 dåliga
479 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:41,400 människor är
480 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:42,400 lite
481 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:43,400 restriktivt.
482 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:44,400 Men
483 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:45,400 inom
484 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:46,400 det
485 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:47,400 gör vi
486 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:48,400 många
487 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:49,400 olika
488 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:50,400 saker.
489 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:51,400 Jag
490 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:52,400 tror
491 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:53,400 att
492 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:54,400 Benjamin
493 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:55,400 Dusser har
494 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:56,400 rätt
495 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:57,400 att säga
496 00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:58,400 att
497 00:16:58,400 --> 00:16:59,400 jag
498 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:00,400 vill
499 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:01,400 göra
500 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:02,400 allt
501 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:03,400 men
502 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:04,400 att jag
503 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:05,400 bara
504 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:06,400 vill göra
505 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:07,400 några
506 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:08,400 saker
507 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:09,400 riktigt
508 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:10,400 bra.
509 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:11,400 Har
510 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:12,400 problemet
511 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:13,400 med
512 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:14,400 dåliga
513 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:15,400 prioriteringar
514 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:16,400 gått
515 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:17,400 bättre
516 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:18,400 eller
517 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:19,400 värre
518 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:20,400 under
519 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:21,400 tiden?
520 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:22,400 Jag tror
521 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:23,400 att vi
522 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:24,400 alltid har
523 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:25,400 det här
524 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:26,400 men det är
525 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:27,400 förstås
526 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:28,400 mycket
527 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:29,400 trurigare
528 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:30,400 när vi
529 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:31,400 pratar om
530 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:32,400 utvecklingsvård
531 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:33,400 för det är
532 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:34,400 inget
533 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:35,400 tydligt
534 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:36,400 feedback.
535 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:37,400 Vi vet inte
536 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:38,400 de människor som
537 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:39,400 CETA hjälper
538 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:40,400 eftersom de är
539 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:41,400 långt, långt
540 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:42,400 bort.
541 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:43,400 Så
542 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:44,400 vi
543 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:45,400 använder
544 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:46,400 berättelser
545 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:47,400 från er och
546 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:48,400 andra journalister
547 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:49,400 som säger
548 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:50,400 att det var
549 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:51,400 en riktigt
550 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:52,400 bra
551 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:53,400 sak.
552 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:54,400 Nu
553 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:55,400 ska vi
554 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:56,400 göra
555 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:57,400 lite bra
556 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:58,400 men en
557 00:17:58,400 --> 00:17:59,400 massiv
558 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:00,400 del bra
559 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:01,400 och det är
560 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:02,400 en mycket
561 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:03,400 hård
562 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:04,400 argument.
563 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:05,400 Så jag
564 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:06,400 tror att vi
565 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:07,400 alltid har
566 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:08,400 varit
567 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:09,400 dåliga
568 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:10,400 i
569 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:11,400 det här
570 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:12,400 och jag
571 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:13,400 tror att
572 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:14,400 vi
573 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:15,400 alltid
574 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:16,400 behöver
575 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:17,400 någon
576 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:18,400 som
577 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:19,400 jag
578 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:20,400 säger
579 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:21,400 att vi
580 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:22,400 ska
581 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:23,400 göra
582 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:24,400 det.
583 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:25,400 Men det
584 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:26,400 är
585 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:27,400 inget
586 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:28,400 specifikt
587 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:29,400 vetenskap.
588 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:30,400 Vi vet inte
589 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:31,400 mycket.
590 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:32,400 Vi vet inte
591 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:33,400 exakt
592 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:34,400 vad som
593 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:35,400 kommer att
594 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:36,400 användas
595 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:37,400 och hur det
596 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:38,400 kommer att användas.
597 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:39,400 Så när jag
598 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:40,400 berättar
599 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:41,400 att
600 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:42,400 sanitation
601 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:43,400 ger dig
602 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:44,400 3 kronor
603 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:45,400 i dollar
604 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:46,400 eller 3 kronor
605 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:47,400 i kronor
606 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:48,400 eller
607 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:49,400 matern och
608 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:50,400 barns
609 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:51,400 hälsa ger
610 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:52,400 87 kronor
611 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:53,400 i kronor.
612 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:54,400 Det är
613 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:55,400 en bra
614 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:56,400 estimation.
615 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:57,400 Men den
616 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:58,400 andra
617 00:18:58,400 --> 00:18:59,400 delen av
618 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:00,400 frågan
619 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:01,400 är det
620 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:02,400 saker som
621 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:03,400 inte finns
622 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:04,400 där?
623 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:05,400 Absolut.
624 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:06,400 Vi
625 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:07,400 använder
626 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:08,400 alla kostnader
627 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:09,400 och alla
628 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:10,400 fördelar.
629 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:11,400 Det här
630 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:12,400 är inte bara
631 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:13,400 en
632 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:14,400 finansiell
633 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:15,400 analys.
634 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:16,400 Det här
635 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:17,400 handlar också om
636 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:18,400 sociala och
637 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:19,400 miljövänliga
638 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:20,400 kostnader.
639 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:21,400 Vi försöker ta in alla dessa kostnader.
640 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:22,400 För att
641 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:23,400 ta in
642 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:24,400 kostnadsanalysen.
643 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:25,400 Så i sätt och
644 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:26,400 vis,
645 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:27,400 vi är
646 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:28,400 de som
647 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:29,400 ger
648 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:30,400 samhället
649 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:31,400 ett menyn
650 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:32,400 med
651 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:33,400 priser och
652 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:34,400 sys owns.
653 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:35,400 Vi ger
654 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:36,400 en
655 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:37,400 känsla av
656 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:38,400 att om du
657 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:39,400 spenderar
658 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:40,400 här
659 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:41,400 får du
660 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:42,400 så mycket
661 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:43,400 bra
662 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:44,400 och det kostar
663 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:45,260 dig så
664 00:19:45,260 --> 00:19:46,260 mycket.
665 00:19:46,260 --> 00:19:47,320 Men om du
666 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:48,400 vill göra det
667 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:49,000 är det
668 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:49,400 förstås en
669 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:50,200 politisk
670 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:50,740 fråga.
671 00:19:50,740 --> 00:19:51,320 Det här är inte
672 00:19:51,320 --> 00:20:01,360 I would imagine that when we talk about equality, these policies that we're advocating are typically policies that help the very weakest, the very poorest.
673 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:10,040 For instance, when we talk about tuberculosis, one of the reasons why tuberculosis has not been fixed is because it mostly hit very poor people.
674 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:15,920 So people in slum areas, people in prisons, people in migrant communities and mining, that kind of thing.
675 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:24,100 People who are outside much of polite society, and so they often don't vote, and therefore they don't get any health care.
676 00:20:24,620 --> 00:20:29,540 We can help deal with that, but that's exactly helping with equality as well.
677 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:34,680 So it's very likely that much of this overlaps, just like when we talk about maternal and newborn health.
678 00:20:35,060 --> 00:20:44,360 The moms who don't go to institutions, the moms whose kids die in their first 30 days, are very likely not the richest but the poorest of the people.
679 00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:45,860 So again, I think a lot of...
680 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,620 A lot of these overlap, but it's not a precise overlap.
681 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,420 So yes, there are other things to look at.
682 00:20:52,740 --> 00:21:09,060 But again, when you're confronted with a policy that does three kronas back and one that does 87 kronas back, there's a lot of leeway to make sure that you do the very best.
683 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:11,580 What are your hopes for the future?
684 00:21:11,580 --> 00:21:14,260 Are the politicians starting to get this?
685 00:21:14,420 --> 00:21:15,900 Are they more down your alley now?
686 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:17,500 Are they more down your alley now than, say, 10 years ago?
687 00:21:17,940 --> 00:21:18,860 I think so.
688 00:21:19,020 --> 00:21:26,920 I mean, obviously, 10 years ago, or 11 years ago, all the politicians decided, we're going to promise everything to everyone, which didn't work.
689 00:21:26,980 --> 00:21:28,800 And we knew already back then it wouldn't work.
690 00:21:29,060 --> 00:21:32,740 But I think a lot more people are realizing, oh, wait, this doesn't work.
691 00:21:33,100 --> 00:21:40,140 I think a lot of politicians were hoping, if we promise the stars, everyone will want to give more development aid.
692 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,580 But of course, that's exactly the opposite of what happened.
693 00:21:42,740 --> 00:21:44,720 We've been very stingy for quite a while.
694 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:45,580 And now with Trump...
695 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:52,900 But also the UK, Germany, France, even Norway in some sense, and also Sweden, somewhat cutting.
696 00:21:53,540 --> 00:21:55,440 Often it's sort of below the surface.
697 00:21:56,280 --> 00:22:00,480 We are realizing we have to do better because we have less and less resources.
698 00:22:00,820 --> 00:22:03,780 We really have to do the most good we can with every krona.
699 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:05,440 So I think there's a lot more interest.
700 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,820 Again, my hope is that we get better at doing this.
701 00:22:09,820 --> 00:22:13,440 I would love for us to just do the very most effective things.
702 00:22:13,620 --> 00:22:15,900 That'll never happen because that's not how politics work.
703 00:22:16,180 --> 00:22:19,400 But if we can push people to spend smarter, that'd be great.
704 00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:27,200 Come 2030 and we get the result back and see that maybe just a fifth or a fourth of the goals has been met,
705 00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:30,100 what would be the effect of that, do you think?
706 00:22:30,300 --> 00:22:31,600 Would we be...
707 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:32,340 What would you say?
708 00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:35,520 I forgot the word, but really sad about it.
709 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:37,560 Okay, should we be happy or sad?
710 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:44,560 I think one of the things I've been constantly arguing and I think there's a lot of good data for is...
711 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,900 ...mostly a place that gets better and better.
712 00:22:49,060 --> 00:22:54,900 We have a tendency, remember, when we read Svenska Dagbladet or any other news outlet in the world.
713 00:22:55,280 --> 00:23:01,780 You guys are put in the world to basically give us a collection of all the worst things that happened in the last 24 hours.
714 00:23:01,780 --> 00:23:02,100 That's my job.
715 00:23:02,300 --> 00:23:03,060 That's your job.
716 00:23:03,060 --> 00:23:06,640 And so we get a sense that everything is coming apart.
717 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:11,940 But we often forget the long-term trends show us things are getting better and better.
718 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,620 We have lifted way over a billion people out of poverty.
719 00:23:15,620 --> 00:23:17,780 In the last 25 years.
720 00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:25,620 Actually, every day, every 24 hours, Svenska Dagbladet and every other newspaper in the world could have had as their headline...
721 00:23:26,380 --> 00:23:30,060 ...138,000 people were lifted out of extreme poverty.
722 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:31,380 Every day for 25 years.
723 00:23:31,660 --> 00:23:32,820 We don't hear this.
724 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:34,740 But we need to remember.
725 00:23:35,140 --> 00:23:37,580 Overall, fewer people die.
726 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:38,660 Fewer kids die.
727 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:40,620 We have much better education.
728 00:23:41,420 --> 00:23:42,920 We have much better opportunity.
729 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:44,480 In many different ways.
730 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:45,280 And we've lifted...
731 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:46,980 ...as I said, many people out of poverty.
732 00:23:47,660 --> 00:23:51,340 So, come 2030, mostly we'll be better off.
733 00:23:51,500 --> 00:23:56,120 But the real depressing outcome is we could have been even better off.
734 00:23:56,220 --> 00:23:58,960 We could have had even fewer kids dying.
735 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,780 We could have even fewer people in extreme poverty and so on.
736 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,760 And so, the real loss is we could have done better.
737 00:24:05,900 --> 00:24:15,160 And of course, that means that by 2030, we should certainly make sure we don't make the same mistake and promise for 2045 that we're going to do all these things again.
738 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,820 But much more importantly, this is 2026.
739 00:24:19,420 --> 00:24:22,720 We should do an incredible amount of good this year and next year.
740 00:24:22,780 --> 00:24:23,920 Not wait till 2030.
741 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:25,900 Another question.
742 00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:29,900 Hasn't the progress slowed down a bit since about 2020?
743 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:31,000 Yes.
744 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:32,320 And why is that?
745 00:24:32,660 --> 00:24:34,400 Well, a lot of reasons.
746 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:40,960 So, much of the COVID problems hit the developing world a lot.
747 00:24:42,220 --> 00:24:44,420 We were very, very worried in the rich world.
748 00:24:44,420 --> 00:24:45,260 And we could have...
749 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:46,080 We could afford to be that.
750 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:59,040 So, a lot of countries, not Sweden, to its credit, but a lot of countries decided to shut down almost entirely in order to preserve and safeguard really old people.
751 00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:03,320 Which is a conversation that has been ongoing, was that the right decision?
752 00:25:03,540 --> 00:25:07,940 But at least in a very rich country where you have lots of old people, that makes some sense.
753 00:25:07,940 --> 00:25:14,720 But unfortunately, most of the poor countries in the world have very few old people and don't...
754 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:16,500 And can't afford to shut down.
755 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:18,100 Yet, they still shut down.
756 00:25:18,180 --> 00:25:19,860 They also shut down their schools.
757 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,460 And that means that a lot of kids got behind.
758 00:25:23,780 --> 00:25:29,540 The World Bank actually estimates this will cost more than $1.2 trillion per year come 2040.
759 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,760 In the sense that school kids are going to be less well off.
760 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:34,540 They're going to be less well educated.
761 00:25:34,740 --> 00:25:35,500 This is terrible.
762 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,580 And we need to go back and try to redo that.
763 00:25:38,580 --> 00:25:44,580 And one of the things, of course, is as we talk about, there are some very smart ways to dramatically increase...
764 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:45,740 The efficiency of school.
765 00:25:46,060 --> 00:25:47,580 We don't do that so much.
766 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,620 It's about getting structured teacher plans.
767 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,240 And it's about getting kids taught at their right level.
768 00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:54,800 So each for individual level.
769 00:25:54,940 --> 00:25:57,560 You could do that, for instance, with a laptop with educational software.
770 00:25:57,660 --> 00:25:59,660 Sorry, a tablet with educational software.
771 00:26:00,300 --> 00:26:01,660 These are very simple things.
772 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,420 We should go in and make sure we do much more of that.
773 00:26:04,700 --> 00:26:08,820 That's one way of getting the world out of the rut, so to speak.
774 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,140 But look, we're not going to be able to manage all of it.
775 00:26:11,220 --> 00:26:13,840 And certainly Sweden is not going to manage to do all of it.
776 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:14,420 But if we...
777 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:21,760 If we start that conversation, so I'm actually here for the goalkeepers, Bill Gates, later today in Stockholm.
778 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,360 And one of the things he's pushing for is exactly some of these incredibly effective things.
779 00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:31,180 And so I would love us to do more on the really effective things.
780 00:26:31,500 --> 00:26:37,980 And I think Sweden could be a land country leading that charge in the world.
781 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,540 We're not going to fix everything, but we are going to fix some of the most important things.
782 00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:43,840 And back to my original question.
783 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,060 COVID was a major setback.
784 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:46,440 Yeah.
785 00:26:46,620 --> 00:26:46,980 Okay.
786 00:26:48,940 --> 00:26:50,440 You mentioned Bill Gates.
787 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:56,060 In November last year, the world leaders met in Brazil for yet another climate summit.
788 00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:02,760 Prior to this summit, you wrote in Svenska Dagbladet that world leaders ought to be listening more to Bill Gates.
789 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,980 What was his message and why was he right?
790 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,380 So for a very long time, we've been very worried about climate change.
791 00:27:11,380 --> 00:27:13,380 So there's been this dominant...
792 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:20,980 ...sort of narrative that the world is ending unless we're going to do a lot against climate change.
793 00:27:21,380 --> 00:27:22,860 And that has never been true.
794 00:27:22,860 --> 00:27:24,500 Climate change is a real problem.
795 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:25,580 It's a man-made problem.
796 00:27:25,580 --> 00:27:27,240 But it's not the end of the world.
797 00:27:27,340 --> 00:27:32,600 It's a problem along with many, many other problems we need to fix in the 21st century.
798 00:27:33,340 --> 00:27:44,280 And what Bill Gates said and what I thought was really incredibly clever way of putting it was we should not be talking in Belem and Brazil or any other climate summit.
799 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,860 Or really any other policy at all about targets.
800 00:27:47,980 --> 00:27:52,800 We shouldn't be talking about, oh, net zero by 2050 or one and a half degrees or two degrees.
801 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:59,280 We should be talking about what will be the impact on human welfare of all these policies.
802 00:27:59,420 --> 00:28:04,700 Because what that tells you is what will be the actual outcome of all of these things.
803 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:11,300 Detta meddelande riktar sig till dig som är över 25 år och redan använder nikotinprodukter.
804 00:28:11,460 --> 00:28:14,400 Vitt snus innehåller nikotin som är ett mycket beroendeframkallande ämne.
805 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:15,740 Snusbolaget.se.
806 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,060 Det är Sveriges största e-handel för vitt snus.
807 00:28:18,500 --> 00:28:25,840 På snusbolaget.se hittar du enkelt ditt snus bland över 600 smaker och många kunder kan få doserna levererade redan nästa dag.
808 00:28:26,060 --> 00:28:29,320 Beställ smartare på snusbolaget.se.
809 00:28:31,610 --> 00:28:33,850 Du, ska vi vända paj?
810 00:28:35,070 --> 00:28:36,630 Men gud, så gott.
811 00:28:37,110 --> 00:28:41,750 Tänker du också på en krämegonst skinkpaj eller någon annan av Felix goda lunchrätter?
812 00:28:42,230 --> 00:28:44,110 Felix, alltid lite godare.
813 00:28:47,740 --> 00:28:50,020 Och en av sakerna som vi har, som har dogat kläderna.
814 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,800 Klimatpolicy for a very long time is we end up making very expensive promises.
815 00:28:55,020 --> 00:29:03,200 Remember if all the rich countries went net zero by 2050, which is what almost all rich countries except the US wants to do.
816 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,980 This would cost literally hundreds of trillions of dollars over the century.
817 00:29:09,140 --> 00:29:11,240 But it would have no impact today.
818 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:20,240 It would have a tiny impact by 2050 and it would reduce temperatures probably if you run this in the UN climate model about 0.1 degree by the end of the year.
819 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,440 So, you almost wouldn't be able to measure it.
820 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:30,520 Spending that much money now in helping people very little in a hundred years is not a very good deal.
821 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,480 We estimate the average payback on that is for every kronor you spend.
822 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,740 You do about 17 euro of good, which is really a bad way.
823 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,580 I mean, you could just have given the money away and you would have done, you know, seven times better.
824 00:29:43,020 --> 00:29:48,220 But the point here is that if you start saying, well, how can we help people better?
825 00:29:48,220 --> 00:29:49,940 How can we make human welfare better?
826 00:29:50,360 --> 00:30:00,320 If you think about a mom and poor world, who has her kids, they might die from easily curable infectious diseases tonight from malaria, for instance.
827 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:01,820 They don't have enough food.
828 00:30:01,940 --> 00:30:03,100 They have terrible education.
829 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:04,560 There are all these kinds of issues.
830 00:30:05,180 --> 00:30:12,820 Her primary priority is not for you and me to help reduce temperatures in a hundred years by 0.1 degree.
831 00:30:12,980 --> 00:30:14,800 That's not her primary priority.
832 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:19,800 It is obviously to fix malaria, fix tuberculosis, fix nutrition, fix education.
833 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,220 These are the very simple things.
834 00:30:22,220 --> 00:30:40,060 And remember, if we do that, if we get people out of disease, out of hunger, into good education, out of poverty, not only will those be good things in and of themselves, it will also mean they will be much more resilient to anything climate will throw at them.
835 00:30:40,540 --> 00:30:50,200 So again, what Bill was really saying is if you stop doing, you know, thinking this is the end of the world, but start realizing, yeah, it's a problem, along with many other problems.
836 00:30:50,360 --> 00:31:01,660 What we're doing on climate will do comparatively little compared to all the other things we could do that would help much more now and, of course, also help much more in the future.
837 00:31:01,700 --> 00:31:14,420 Because if you take this mom's kids out of poverty and disease, they will grow up, get their own kids and be much better off and be much better able to make sure that their kids get even better off.
838 00:31:14,420 --> 00:31:18,160 So by 2100, they will live in a much better world.
839 00:31:18,660 --> 00:31:20,340 And that, I think, is one of.
840 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,340 The big teachings that we need to take away.
841 00:31:22,660 --> 00:31:28,320 We need to stop being so preoccupied with climate that we forget about all the other problems in the world.
842 00:31:28,660 --> 00:31:31,080 This does not mean I mean, we're we're smart civilization.
843 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:32,640 We can walk and chew gum.
844 00:31:32,740 --> 00:31:43,120 We can do several things at once, but we should spend less money more smartly on climate and we should spend the money that we want to help the poor world much more smartly.
845 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,180 So we actually end up helping them a lot.
846 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:50,340 And the same question again, the politicians that met in Brazil and will meet.
847 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:55,160 This year as well have started to listening to Bill Gates and to you.
848 00:31:55,740 --> 00:32:02,100 Well, first of all, the people who are going to meet who met in Belém and are going to meet in, I think, Turkey.
849 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:09,320 I can't quite figure out because there are two countries I wanted to run this, but they're going to meet in another nice place and in a little year.
850 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,300 They're all obviously all climate people.
851 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:13,900 So, you know, not surprising.
852 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,980 Well, if you ask a climate person, what's the biggest problem?
853 00:32:17,060 --> 00:32:18,240 They'll obviously say climate.
854 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,320 If you ask a health person, what's the biggest problem?
855 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:21,820 They'll obviously say health.
856 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:31,200 It's our job as voters and it's the politicians job as politicians to say, OK, but I get that all of you want the money for yourself.
857 00:32:31,380 --> 00:32:35,280 But we have to make the hard calls of saying, where do our money go go to?
858 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:43,460 So if you want to fix climate change, what you need to understand is this is not about virtue signaling in the rich world.
859 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:49,000 Whatever the rich world does is a tiny bit in the 21st century emissions.
860 00:32:49,140 --> 00:32:50,320 We're going to be about 13.
861 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:55,980 Realistically, we can cut about five of those percent by 2050.
862 00:32:56,540 --> 00:32:58,220 So we can do nothing.
863 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:05,240 What really matters is, can we get China, India, Africa, Brazil, Indonesia on board?
864 00:33:05,420 --> 00:33:10,000 And we can't unless we make green energy cheaper than fossil fuels.
865 00:33:10,300 --> 00:33:15,260 So what we really need to do is to focus on innovation in green energy.
866 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:20,340 And just to give you one example, if we could make fourth generation nuclear or fusion,
867 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:27,420 if we could make fusion work, if we could make it cheaper than fossil fuels, everyone would switch.
868 00:33:27,740 --> 00:33:29,220 You wouldn't have to have a conversation.
869 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:34,900 You wouldn't have to meet at all these UN summits because the economics would have made it cheaper.
870 00:33:35,580 --> 00:33:38,140 That's the way you solve big problems through innovation.
871 00:33:38,340 --> 00:33:42,120 And we have spent much, much less on innovation than what we promised.
872 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,660 We've actually stayed pretty much at the same level for the last 20 years.
873 00:33:45,660 --> 00:33:50,200 We've gone down dramatically since the 1980s because we've been so focused.
874 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,080 And doing virtue signalling.
875 00:33:52,080 --> 00:34:00,700 So Swedish, Danish, pretty much all well-meaning rich world people will have put up lots of wind turbines and solar panels and say,
876 00:34:00,860 --> 00:34:06,900 see, rather than investing in green energy R&D, which is the way that you're actually going to get this solved.
877 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:14,040 That's quite surprising because I thought that green innovation got all the funding it needed.
878 00:34:14,179 --> 00:34:16,179 But the numbers says otherwise.
879 00:34:16,460 --> 00:34:19,760 So what you have to remember is we spent a lot of money on stuff.
880 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:20,280 We know.
881 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:20,900 It doesn't work.
882 00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:25,380 So the stuff that we actually have to have subsidies and have special regulations.
883 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:30,040 So we spent a lot of money on existing wind turbines and existing solar panels.
884 00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:33,219 But the reality is we need to get much better.
885 00:34:33,739 --> 00:34:38,800 That is much cheaper solar panels and wind turbines, but also lots and lots of batteries.
886 00:34:38,860 --> 00:34:41,739 We're not there anywhere close to there.
887 00:34:41,739 --> 00:34:49,860 We need to spend a lot more on fourth generation nuclear, on fusion and all these other technologies that potentially could come through.
888 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:50,340 But we need to spend a lot more on fourth generation nuclear, on fusion and all these other technologies that potentially could come through.
889 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:54,659 But the point is research and development is incredibly cheap.
890 00:34:54,940 --> 00:34:57,820 And that's why we can spend it on pretty much all of these things.
891 00:34:57,940 --> 00:35:01,220 And we just have to have one or a few of these technologies come through.
892 00:35:01,300 --> 00:35:03,680 And those are the ones that will power the 21st century.
893 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:16,680 So if you look at how much we've spent in percent of GDP, it's been it was about eight cents per hundred dollars in the 1980s.
894 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,200 And since then, it's been about three to four.
895 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,280 So it's halved, not increased.
896 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:39,300 And in 2015 at the Paris summit, there was another summit where Obama and Xi Jinping and the EU and many other people of goodwill actually said we had a tiny bit of influence in this.
897 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:44,680 It was called the Breakthrough Initiative, where they actually promised to double spending in green energy R&D.
898 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:50,160 And we did no such thing again because everybody focuses on building a new wind turbine.
899 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:59,740 Rather than spending more on R&D, because the one the first thing you can get on the news for and you can go and cut a ribbon looks like you're really doing something.
900 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:06,360 Whereas the other one that's just funding scientists to do their thing and maybe it won't work before 20 years.
901 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,280 But we know it's the only way they'll actually fix climate change.
902 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:16,040 And the larger R&D investments in the 1980s, has they paid off?
903 00:36:17,100 --> 00:36:20,040 So the reason why we did it in the 1980s was because...
904 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:24,840 Because of the second oil crisis, and everybody wanted to find something else than oil.
905 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:34,280 One way you can say it paid off, but this is somewhat far down the line, was in the fracking revolution in the US in the early 2000s.
906 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:41,080 And remember what fracking did for the world was essentially, a lot of people have very negative images of fracking.
907 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:48,080 And there are real environmental problems with fracking, but fundamentally fracking meant you can make gas much cheaper.
908 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,080 And that meant that the US switched.
909 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,080 Massively from coal to gas.
910 00:36:52,080 --> 00:37:03,080 That by far has been the most important thing for reducing CO2, because gas emits about half as much CO2 as does coal per unit of energy.
911 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:09,080 So it was really one of those things where you got cheaper and greener energy through innovation.
912 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:17,080 It was not the intention back then, they wanted to find a different opportunity for oil and they wanted to get rid of the dependency on Saudi Arabia.
913 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,080 And the US clearly did that.
914 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:19,580 But...
915 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:21,580 Europe should have done the same thing.
916 00:37:21,580 --> 00:37:23,580 We should have made sure China did the same thing.
917 00:37:23,580 --> 00:37:26,080 That would have dramatically reduced emission.
918 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:33,580 Now, this is not the full solution because obviously natural gas is still a fossil fuel and it still emits CO2, only much less.
919 00:37:33,580 --> 00:37:40,580 But it would have been a great bridge fuel to a greener future and most of the world unfortunately didn't do that.
920 00:37:40,580 --> 00:37:45,580 You mentioned earlier that climate change is one of the problems humanity is facing.
921 00:37:45,580 --> 00:37:49,080 Many would say that it's the problem, the greatest problem.
922 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:55,580 What if the mean temperature would rise not 2 degrees but maybe 4 or 5 degrees?
923 00:37:55,580 --> 00:37:58,580 Wouldn't that be a disaster for humanity?
924 00:37:58,580 --> 00:38:03,080 It would be a bigger challenge.
925 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,080 Would it be manageable for us?
926 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:11,080 Well, I think so. Certainly that's what the climate economics tell us.
927 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,080 But it would definitely be a bigger problem.
928 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:18,080 Now, all studies show that we're going to reach by the end of the century about 3 degrees.
929 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:22,080 So I think it's realistic to say, well, what is the impact of 3 degrees?
930 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:29,080 Well, this is what climate economics has been working on for a very long time, for decades.
931 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:33,580 And what they find is if you look at all the costs and all the benefits.
932 00:38:33,580 --> 00:38:38,580 Remember, when you have global warming, you get more heat waves but you also get fewer cold waves.
933 00:38:38,580 --> 00:38:41,580 That means you get more people dying from heat but fewer people dying from cold.
934 00:38:41,580 --> 00:38:43,580 You need to include all of these things.
935 00:38:43,580 --> 00:38:47,580 If you include all of them, there's more disbenefits and benefits.
936 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,080 That's why it's a problem.
937 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:57,080 But what it turns out is the net cost is equivalent to losing somewhere between 2 and 3 percent of GDP by the end of the century.
938 00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:02,080 This is the estimate of the only climate economist to win the Nobel Prize, William Nordhaus.
939 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:07,080 And another one of the most quoted climate economists in the world, Richard Tull.
940 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:11,080 Two meta studies that try to take into account all of the studies.
941 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:17,080 Remember, you very often hear the worst studies because it's a little bit like, you know, is egg dangerous for you?
942 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,080 Or is coffee dangerous for you?
943 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,080 You don't hear the studies that don't say they're dangerous.
944 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,080 You hear the studies that say they are dangerous.
945 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,080 And so you hear the very extreme scenarios.
946 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:30,080 But if you actually take the meta study and take all of the studies, and that's what they've done.
947 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,080 You come up with 2 to 3 percent.
948 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,080 Just to give you a sense of proportion.
949 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:42,080 The UN estimates that by the end of the century, the average person in the world will be about 450 percent as rich as he or she is today.
950 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,080 So, a much, much better world.
951 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,080 Because of climate change.
952 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:51,080 It's going to feel like he or she is only 435 percent as rich.
953 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,080 Now, that's a problem.
954 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,080 It's obviously a problem that we didn't get to 450.
955 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,080 But it's not the end of the world.
956 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,080 It's a slightly less, much better world.
957 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:08,080 And that's why I'm saying, and that's why the science, the climate science, sorry, climate economic science shows very clearly.
958 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,080 Climate change is a problem.
959 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,080 But it's not by any means the end of the world.
960 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,080 And that's incredibly important.
961 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:21,080 If climate was the only problem in the world, then we should be spending, sorry, was the main problem that's going to kill us all.
962 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:26,080 Then obviously you should spend all of our money on that and you should just forget about poverty and all the other things.
963 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:29,080 But that's just not what the numbers tell us.
964 00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:37,080 But can't you make the argument, and I know some people do, that the uncertainty of climate change are so big and the risk are so big.
965 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:42,080 So, it may cost a lot of money, but it's a cheap insurance for future generation.
966 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,080 What do you think about that?
967 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,080 There are certainly a lot of people who make that argument.
968 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,080 There are several things wrong with that argument.
969 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:57,080 First of all, if you want to buy real insurance, for the vast majority of humanity, it's about getting them out of poverty.
970 00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:03,080 Not only is that great for all the other things that we worry about, like disease and hunger and all these things.
971 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:09,080 But it also means that they are much, much less vulnerable to climate disasters.
972 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:13,080 If a hurricane hits Florida, a few people die and that's it.
973 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:20,080 If the same hurricane hits Guatemala, it devastates their economy and thousands or even tens of thousands of people die.
974 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:27,080 So, the answer here is not to try to make hurricanes slightly less worse by the end of the century.
975 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,080 The answer, of course, is to get Guatemalans out of poverty first.
976 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:37,080 Now, again, I sympathize with the idea of saying, but we should also make sure we do something good for climate.
977 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,080 So, there's two problems with this.
978 00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,080 First of all, so far, for the last 30 years.
979 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:48,080 Pretty much all that we've gotten from climate policy is rich countries virtue cycling a little bit.
980 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,080 We haven't cut very much.
981 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:58,080 I mean, we've still seen the biggest amount of emissions from fossil fuels in the world was last year.
982 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:00,080 It keeps going up.
983 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:08,080 And the reality is that even though we talk a lot about it, most people, not surprisingly, because we would do exactly the same thing as we were poor,
984 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:12,080 decide they'd rather not be poor than cutting their carbon emissions.
985 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:16,080 So, we have been focusing on the wrong ways to fix climate change.
986 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:25,080 And I think it's very likely that if we keep on doing these poor policies, we're going to see more people voting for the likes of Donald Trump.
987 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:32,080 I don't agree with a lot of the things that Donald Trump has done, but I think we're seeing that also in a lot of Europe.
988 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:37,080 Right wing populist parties that are essentially saying, enough, we don't want to pay for this.
989 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:41,080 And remember, these current climate policies have to be endured first.
990 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,080 For decades on end.
991 00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:49,080 And most likely, most of them will be scrapped at one point or another.
992 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:57,080 So, instead, we need to spend less, but spend it much smarter and dramatically increase research and green energy R&D,
993 00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:03,080 which would be much cheaper, much more effective, and also leave money for all the other problems we should be fixing.
994 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,080 Right. Emissions is going up, that is true.
995 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:10,080 But it's in money countries, they are going down or they are not going up.
996 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:11,080 And still, we are getting more people.
997 00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,080 And we are getting richer.
998 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:16,080 So, per capita, emissions are falling in some countries.
999 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,080 Isn't that a little bit good?
1000 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:19,080 Absolutely.
1001 00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,080 I mean, I'd rather live in a world where we cut emissions than where we don't.
1002 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,080 But there are real trade-offs.
1003 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:28,080 And that's what we've spent the last, I don't know, half hour, three quarters of an hour talking about.
1004 00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:30,080 Because we can't do it all.
1005 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:35,080 So, we can decide we're going to spend a significant part of our wealth on cutting emissions.
1006 00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:38,080 Now, in a rich country like Sweden, you can decide to do that.
1007 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:39,080 And you can get away with it.
1008 00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:40,080 And you can do this for very little.
1009 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:42,080 For a fairly long time.
1010 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:48,080 But there are also powers that eventually turn up and say, especially when this hurts a lot of poor people.
1011 00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:49,080 Because it will.
1012 00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:50,080 Poor people in rich countries.
1013 00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:56,080 So, poor people in Sweden who feel the struggle from having to pay an expensive energy bill.
1014 00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,080 Who can't fill their gas tank.
1015 00:43:58,080 --> 00:43:59,080 So on.
1016 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:00,080 Those are real issues.
1017 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:04,080 And eventually, that will turn up at the ballot box.
1018 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:08,080 But this is much, much more important to realize.
1019 00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,080 You can't make India or Africa.
1020 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,080 Or Indonesia decide to say this.
1021 00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,080 I mean, it was somewhat underreported.
1022 00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:18,080 But I don't know if you noticed.
1023 00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:23,080 During the Brazil leadership of the latest climate conference.
1024 00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:30,080 Lula also announced that they were going to drill a lot more off the coast of the Amazon forest.
1025 00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:34,080 And, you know, they were sort of challenging him and saying, Mr. President.
1026 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:38,080 You're head of the climate conference.
1027 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:39,080 And you want everyone to cut.
1028 00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:41,080 And he was like, yeah.
1029 00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:42,080 But we're a poor country.
1030 00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,080 And we also want to have more opportunity.
1031 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,080 We want to get a lot more people out of poverty.
1032 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,080 And that's just how it has to be.
1033 00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:49,080 And that's, of course, obvious.
1034 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,080 I mean, we've recognized this.
1035 00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,080 Because if you and I live there.
1036 00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,080 Especially if we were poor.
1037 00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:58,080 We would want our president to do the same thing.
1038 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:02,080 Most of climate politics are ineffective and bad.
1039 00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:06,080 Are there examples of good policies that we should do more of?
1040 00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:07,080 So, unfortunately.
1041 00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:08,080 There has not been very many.
1042 00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,080 I mean, there was a big study a couple of years ago.
1043 00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:14,080 That looked at 4,000 climate policies.
1044 00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,080 And only 0.67%.
1045 00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:21,080 So, less than 1% of them had measurable impact.
1046 00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,080 So, what that tells you is, no.
1047 00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,080 Most of them have just been really, really bad.
1048 00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,080 This doesn't mean that.
1049 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:35,080 So, I think some of these things that we do for other reasons.
1050 00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:36,080 So, for air pollution reasons.
1051 00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:37,080 For instance, getting rid of air pollution.
1052 00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:40,080 For instance, getting rid of coal is a great idea in much of the rich world.
1053 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,080 Not mainly because of climate change.
1054 00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,080 But because they pollute a lot.
1055 00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:45,080 And because we're rich.
1056 00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,080 That is actually a really bad idea.
1057 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:50,080 Because they kill people from air pollution.
1058 00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:55,080 There's also the argument of getting more energy efficiency.
1059 00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:59,080 It's been good for many countries who didn't go on the fracking revolution.
1060 00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:03,080 So, are dependent on having to import a lot of fossil fuels.
1061 00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,080 It's good, all things equal.
1062 00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,080 You don't have to import as much fossil fuels.
1063 00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:09,080 So that you save on energy.
1064 00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:11,080 But unfortunately, no.
1065 00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:15,080 Many of these policies have just been just breaking even.
1066 00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:17,080 Or worse than that.
1067 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,080 The plans for emission trading system in the EU.
1068 00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:22,080 Is that a good idea?
1069 00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:26,080 So, it's certainly a better idea than most of these other tendencies.
1070 00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,080 That we want to give subsidies.
1071 00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:32,080 Or that we want to just determine how to do this.
1072 00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,080 Because if you do it through a trading system.
1073 00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:36,080 Or a carbon tax.
1074 00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:38,080 Which is essentially the equivalent.
1075 00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,080 You get a more efficient allocation.
1076 00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,080 So, any economist would say this is an improvement.
1077 00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:46,080 But again, when you're going to say by 2040.
1078 00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:49,080 We want to cut 90% of our emissions.
1079 00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:51,080 That's just ludicrous.
1080 00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:52,080 It's not going to happen.
1081 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,080 At current technology.
1082 00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,080 I mean, it may be that we find technologies that are so efficient.
1083 00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:58,080 That we can achieve this.
1084 00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:02,080 But otherwise, you're just going to get wholesale voter outrage.
1085 00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,080 And you're going to get these policies thrown.
1086 00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:06,080 That's part of the reason why I'm saying.
1087 00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:08,080 We can promise all these nice things.
1088 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,080 But once it starts getting really, really expensive.
1089 00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,080 Voters won't have it.
1090 00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:16,080 And so again, we need to find a policy that actually works in real life.
1091 00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:21,080 And not just one that makes especially green voters feel good right now.
1092 00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:25,080 And these great promises that are never going to be met.
1093 00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:28,080 If you want to come to democracy.
1094 00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:32,080 And what do you think about this political system and so on.
1095 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:35,080 Are there risks and dangers that people are going.
1096 00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:36,080 Nah.
1097 00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,080 The promises are never met.
1098 00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,080 So they are losing faith in politics.
1099 00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:42,080 Oh, of course.
1100 00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:47,080 I mean, it's a bad idea to have politicians promise stuff.
1101 00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:49,080 That they're not actually going to achieve.
1102 00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:52,080 That was true when we talked about the sustainable development goals.
1103 00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,080 That's true about the climate policies.
1104 00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:55,080 But I think.
1105 00:47:55,080 --> 00:48:01,080 Whereas most politicians probably knew that they were just bragging.
1106 00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,080 With the sustainable development goals.
1107 00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:04,080 Because they kind of knew.
1108 00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,080 Of course we're not going to eradicate poverty.
1109 00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:07,080 And eradicate hunger.
1110 00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:09,080 And eradicate infectious disease.
1111 00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,080 That's just silly.
1112 00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:12,080 To make these promises.
1113 00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:13,080 What we should have promised.
1114 00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,080 Like we did in the millennium development goals.
1115 00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,080 To cut them by two thirds.
1116 00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:18,080 Or cut them by half.
1117 00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:19,080 Or something realistic.
1118 00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,080 That would have been sensible.
1119 00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,080 The other thing is just propaganda.
1120 00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,080 But I think on climate.
1121 00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,080 A lot of people have bought in.
1122 00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,080 A lot of politicians have bought in.
1123 00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:30,080 This is the end of the world.
1124 00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:32,080 We just have to do everything.
1125 00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:34,080 But of course when it comes down to it.
1126 00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:35,080 For most people.
1127 00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,080 It is a problem.
1128 00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:44,080 But it's also a problem if I can't afford to fill up my gas tank in the car.
1129 00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:48,080 Or afford to keep the whole house heated.
1130 00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,080 We know for instance in many countries.
1131 00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,080 Probably not so much here in Sweden.
1132 00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,080 Because we have a fairly equal society.
1133 00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:56,080 But in Britain for instance.
1134 00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:58,080 About a third of all retirees.
1135 00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:04,080 They keep parts of their house unheated in the winter.
1136 00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:06,080 Because they just can't afford to.
1137 00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:08,080 And many of them stay in bed longer.
1138 00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:10,080 In order to stay warm.
1139 00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:11,080 Those kinds of things.
1140 00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:12,080 No.
1141 00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,080 That's not how a civilized developed country should be.
1142 00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,080 And we need to come to terms with saying.
1143 00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:20,080 We shouldn't offer everything on the altar of climate change.
1144 00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:23,080 In order to do ineffective policies.
1145 00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:25,080 We should be focusing on spending less money.
1146 00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:26,080 Much more effectively.
1147 00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:27,080 Both fix climate.
1148 00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:29,080 And fix all the other problems.
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1157 00:49:53,590 --> 00:49:56,120 Du.
1158 00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,120 Ska vi vända paj?
1159 00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:01,120 Men gud så gott.
1160 00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:03,120 Tänker du också på en krämegonst skinkpaj.
1161 00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,120 Eller någon annan av Felix goda lunchrätter.
1162 00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:06,120 Felix.
1163 00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:08,120 Alltid lite godare.
1164 00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:13,070 A bit on that topic.
1165 00:50:13,070 --> 00:50:16,070 You argue in another of your pieces from last year.
1166 00:50:16,070 --> 00:50:18,070 That voters has grown tired of politicians.
1167 00:50:18,070 --> 00:50:22,070 Who compete to scream the most and loudest about imminent danger.
1168 00:50:22,070 --> 00:50:24,070 And that's a good thing I reckon.
1169 00:50:24,070 --> 00:50:25,070 Yes.
1170 00:50:25,070 --> 00:50:26,070 Yes.
1171 00:50:26,070 --> 00:50:27,070 I mean look.
1172 00:50:27,070 --> 00:50:29,070 We gotta stop scaring our kids witless.
1173 00:50:29,070 --> 00:50:30,070 As I mentioned.
1174 00:50:30,070 --> 00:50:31,070 You know.
1175 00:50:31,070 --> 00:50:33,070 The fact that by the end of the century.
1176 00:50:33,070 --> 00:50:36,070 The average person will only be 435% as rich.
1177 00:50:36,070 --> 00:50:38,070 Rather than 450%.
1178 00:50:38,070 --> 00:50:40,070 Should mostly be celebrated.
1179 00:50:40,070 --> 00:50:41,070 I mean yes.
1180 00:50:41,070 --> 00:50:44,070 It's still a problem that we could have done even better.
1181 00:50:44,070 --> 00:50:45,070 And yes.
1182 00:50:45,070 --> 00:50:46,070 There's a lot of things in there.
1183 00:50:46,070 --> 00:50:48,070 But this is not the end of the world.
1184 00:50:48,070 --> 00:50:52,070 Us scaring kids witless has been a terrible thing.
1185 00:50:52,070 --> 00:50:55,070 It's led to a lot of psychological problems.
1186 00:50:55,070 --> 00:50:56,070 And quite frankly.
1187 00:50:56,070 --> 00:50:58,070 I understand a lot of kids who have decided.
1188 00:50:58,070 --> 00:50:59,070 No.
1189 00:50:59,070 --> 00:51:00,070 I don't want to go to school.
1190 00:51:00,070 --> 00:51:02,070 Or I don't want to get a kid.
1191 00:51:02,070 --> 00:51:04,070 Those are terrible outcomes.
1192 00:51:04,070 --> 00:51:05,070 If they are untrue.
1193 00:51:05,070 --> 00:51:07,070 And I think it's very very obvious.
1194 00:51:07,070 --> 00:51:08,070 The data tells you.
1195 00:51:08,070 --> 00:51:09,070 These are untrue.
1196 00:51:09,070 --> 00:51:12,070 So when we get politicians who scream a little less.
1197 00:51:12,070 --> 00:51:15,070 And who start having a more sensible conversation.
1198 00:51:15,070 --> 00:51:16,070 Yes.
1199 00:51:16,070 --> 00:51:18,070 Climate change is one challenge that we need to fix.
1200 00:51:18,070 --> 00:51:19,070 Let's fix it smartly.
1201 00:51:19,070 --> 00:51:22,070 So we can also afford all the other things.
1202 00:51:22,070 --> 00:51:23,070 Remember.
1203 00:51:23,070 --> 00:51:24,070 For most Europeans.
1204 00:51:24,070 --> 00:51:25,070 We've started realizing.
1205 00:51:25,070 --> 00:51:26,070 Oh.
1206 00:51:26,070 --> 00:51:27,070 We gotta pay a lot more for our defense.
1207 00:51:27,070 --> 00:51:29,070 Because there's actually real problems in the world.
1208 00:51:29,070 --> 00:51:31,070 That could come and bite us.
1209 00:51:31,070 --> 00:51:33,070 In the behind.
1210 00:51:33,070 --> 00:51:35,070 In just a couple of years.
1211 00:51:35,070 --> 00:51:39,070 And there are lots of other problems across the European continent.
1212 00:51:39,070 --> 00:51:41,070 We're not competitive enough.
1213 00:51:41,070 --> 00:51:43,070 We have very very high energy prices.
1214 00:51:43,070 --> 00:51:45,070 Which is one of the outcomes of climate policy.
1215 00:51:45,070 --> 00:51:47,070 And we have unfunded.
1216 00:51:47,070 --> 00:51:48,070 Not here in Sweden.
1217 00:51:48,070 --> 00:51:49,070 In the Nordics.
1218 00:51:49,070 --> 00:51:50,070 But in general.
1219 00:51:50,070 --> 00:51:52,070 Unfunded pension systems.
1220 00:51:52,070 --> 00:51:55,070 That are going to erupt really badly in just a couple of decades.
1221 00:51:55,070 --> 00:51:57,070 We have lots of other problems.
1222 00:51:57,070 --> 00:51:58,070 Let's not make ourselves so.
1223 00:51:58,070 --> 00:51:59,070 Weak.
1224 00:51:59,070 --> 00:52:00,070 For one thing.
1225 00:52:00,070 --> 00:52:01,070 That doesn't work.
1226 00:52:01,070 --> 00:52:02,070 Namely.
1227 00:52:02,070 --> 00:52:03,070 The current climate policies.
1228 00:52:03,070 --> 00:52:04,070 That we can't actually fix.
1229 00:52:04,070 --> 00:52:05,070 All these other things.
1230 00:52:05,070 --> 00:52:06,070 So we can also.
1231 00:52:06,070 --> 00:52:07,070 I don't know.
1232 00:52:07,070 --> 00:52:08,070 Stand up to Trump.
1233 00:52:08,070 --> 00:52:09,070 Another question.
1234 00:52:09,070 --> 00:52:10,070 Maybe a bit of a side note.
1235 00:52:10,070 --> 00:52:11,070 But in Sweden.
1236 00:52:11,070 --> 00:52:12,070 For a few years ago.
1237 00:52:12,070 --> 00:52:13,070 It was a very common message.
1238 00:52:13,070 --> 00:52:14,070 From politicians.
1239 00:52:14,070 --> 00:52:15,070 That.
1240 00:52:15,070 --> 00:52:16,070 You haven't.
1241 00:52:16,070 --> 00:52:17,070 You didn't have to choose.
1242 00:52:17,070 --> 00:52:18,070 Between economic growth.
1243 00:52:18,070 --> 00:52:19,070 And climate.
1244 00:52:19,070 --> 00:52:20,070 Transition.
1245 00:52:20,070 --> 00:52:21,070 Because.
1246 00:52:21,070 --> 00:52:22,070 They were going.
1247 00:52:22,070 --> 00:52:23,070 Walking hand in hand.
1248 00:52:23,070 --> 00:52:24,070 Actually.
1249 00:52:24,070 --> 00:52:25,070 There was.
1250 00:52:25,070 --> 00:52:26,070 Green transition.
1251 00:52:26,070 --> 00:52:27,070 Was itself.
1252 00:52:27,070 --> 00:52:28,070 A path to growth.
1253 00:52:28,070 --> 00:52:29,070 Yeah.
1254 00:52:29,070 --> 00:52:30,070 Was this.
1255 00:52:30,070 --> 00:52:31,070 Never true.
1256 00:52:31,070 --> 00:52:32,070 Or was it true.
1257 00:52:32,070 --> 00:52:33,070 Or.
1258 00:52:33,070 --> 00:52:34,070 I don't think it was ever true.
1259 00:52:34,070 --> 00:52:35,070 But it's a very obvious now.
1260 00:52:35,070 --> 00:52:36,070 That.
1261 00:52:36,070 --> 00:52:37,070 We can see.
1262 00:52:37,070 --> 00:52:38,070 It's not true.
1263 00:52:38,070 --> 00:52:39,070 Obviously.
1264 00:52:39,070 --> 00:52:40,070 If.
1265 00:52:40,070 --> 00:52:41,070 You recognize this.
1266 00:52:41,070 --> 00:52:42,070 Yes.
1267 00:52:42,070 --> 00:52:43,070 Oh.
1268 00:52:43,070 --> 00:52:44,070 Oh.
1269 00:52:44,070 --> 00:52:45,070 Of course.
1270 00:52:45,070 --> 00:52:46,070 And.
1271 00:52:46,070 --> 00:52:47,070 And.
1272 00:52:47,070 --> 00:52:48,070 And.
1273 00:52:48,070 --> 00:52:49,070 The simple point is.
1274 00:52:49,070 --> 00:52:50,070 Look.
1275 00:52:50,070 --> 00:52:51,070 If.
1276 00:52:51,070 --> 00:52:52,070 Green.
1277 00:52:52,070 --> 00:52:53,070 Was really.
1278 00:52:53,070 --> 00:52:54,070 Cheaper.
1279 00:52:54,070 --> 00:52:55,070 Everyone would just be.
1280 00:52:55,070 --> 00:52:56,070 Doing it.
1281 00:52:56,070 --> 00:52:57,070 The reason.
1282 00:52:57,070 --> 00:52:58,070 Why.
1283 00:52:58,070 --> 00:52:59,070 We.
1284 00:52:59,070 --> 00:53:00,070 Have.
1285 00:53:00,070 --> 00:53:01,070 To.
1286 00:53:01,070 --> 00:53:02,070 Twist.
1287 00:53:02,070 --> 00:53:03,070 Each.
1288 00:53:03,070 --> 00:53:04,070 Other's.
1289 00:53:04,070 --> 00:53:05,070 Arms.
1290 00:53:05,070 --> 00:53:06,070 And.
1291 00:53:06,070 --> 00:53:07,070 Our.
1292 00:53:07,070 --> 00:53:08,070 Own.
1293 00:53:08,070 --> 00:53:09,070 Arms.
1294 00:53:09,070 --> 00:53:10,070 Is.
1295 00:53:10,070 --> 00:53:11,070 Of.
1296 00:53:11,070 --> 00:53:12,070 Course.
1297 00:53:12,070 --> 00:53:13,070 That.
1298 00:53:13,070 --> 00:53:14,070 We're.
1299 00:53:14,070 --> 00:53:15,070 Actually.
1300 00:53:15,070 --> 00:53:16,070 Asking.
1301 00:53:16,070 --> 00:53:17,070 People.
1302 00:53:17,070 --> 00:53:18,070 To.
1303 00:53:18,070 --> 00:53:19,070 Do.
1304 00:53:19,070 --> 00:53:20,070 I'm.
1305 00:53:20,070 --> 00:53:21,070 Sorry.
1306 00:53:21,070 --> 00:53:22,070 Would.
1307 00:53:22,070 --> 00:53:23,070 You.
1308 00:53:23,070 --> 00:53:24,070 Mind.
1309 00:53:24,070 --> 00:53:25,070 Having.
1310 00:53:25,070 --> 00:53:26,070 More.
1311 00:53:26,070 --> 00:53:27,070 Can't.
1312 00:53:27,070 --> 00:53:28,070 Do.
1313 00:53:28,070 --> 00:53:29,070 Everything.
1314 00:53:29,070 --> 00:53:30,070 And.
1315 00:53:30,070 --> 00:53:31,070 So.
1316 00:53:31,070 --> 00:53:32,070 This.
1317 00:53:32,070 --> 00:53:33,070 Cost.
1318 00:53:33,070 --> 00:53:34,070 Real.
1319 00:53:34,070 --> 00:53:35,070 Resources.
1320 00:53:35,070 --> 00:53:36,070 And.
1321 00:53:36,070 --> 00:53:37,070 That's.
1322 00:53:37,070 --> 00:53:38,070 Of.
1323 00:53:38,070 --> 00:53:39,070 Course.
1324 00:53:39,070 --> 00:53:40,070 Why.
1325 00:53:40,070 --> 00:53:41,070 We're.
1326 00:53:41,070 --> 00:53:42,070 Seeing.
1327 00:53:42,070 --> 00:53:43,070 Across.
1328 00:53:43,070 --> 00:53:44,070 The.
1329 00:53:44,070 --> 00:53:45,070 European.
1330 00:53:45,070 --> 00:53:46,070 Continent.
1331 00:53:46,070 --> 00:53:47,070 A lot.
1332 00:53:47,070 --> 00:53:48,070 Of.
1333 00:53:48,070 --> 00:53:49,070 People.
1334 00:53:49,070 --> 00:53:50,070 Saying.
1335 00:53:50,070 --> 00:53:51,070 No.
1336 00:53:51,070 --> 00:53:52,070 I.
1337 00:53:52,070 --> 00:53:53,070 Don't.
1338 00:53:53,070 --> 00:53:54,070 Want.
1339 00:53:54,070 --> 00:53:55,070 To.
1340 00:53:55,070 --> 00:53:56,070 Work.
1341 00:53:56,070 --> 00:53:57,070 That.
1342 00:53:57,070 --> 00:53:58,070 The.
1343 00:53:58,070 --> 00:53:59,070 Well.
1344 00:53:59,070 --> 00:54:00,070 Intentioned.
1345 00:54:00,070 --> 00:54:01,070 People.
1346 00:54:01,070 --> 00:54:02,070 On.
1347 00:54:02,070 --> 00:54:03,070 Climate.
1348 00:54:03,070 --> 00:54:04,070 Change.
1349 00:54:04,070 --> 00:54:05,070 Have.
1350 00:54:05,070 --> 00:54:06,070 Been.
1351 00:54:06,070 --> 00:54:07,070 Pushing.
1352 00:54:07,070 --> 00:54:08,070 A.
1353 00:54:08,070 --> 00:54:09,070 Policy.
1354 00:54:09,070 --> 00:54:10,070 That.
1355 00:54:10,070 --> 00:54:11,070 We.
1356 00:54:11,070 --> 00:54:12,070 Knew.
1357 00:54:12,070 --> 00:54:13,070 30.
1358 00:54:13,070 --> 00:54:14,070 Years.
1359 00:54:14,070 --> 00:54:15,070 Ago.
1360 00:54:15,070 --> 00:54:16,070 Wouldn't.
1361 00:54:16,070 --> 00:54:17,070 Work.
1362 00:54:17,070 --> 00:54:18,070 That.
1363 00:54:18,070 --> 00:54:19,070 We.
1364 00:54:19,070 --> 00:54:20,070 Knew.
1365 00:54:20,070 --> 00:54:21,070 20.
1366 00:54:21,070 --> 00:54:22,070 Or.
1367 00:54:22,070 --> 00:54:23,070 10.
1368 00:54:23,070 --> 00:54:24,070 Years.
1369 00:54:24,070 --> 00:54:25,070 That.
1370 00:54:25,070 --> 00:54:26,070 We.
1371 00:54:26,070 --> 00:54:27,070 Need.
1372 00:54:27,070 --> 00:54:28,070 To.
1373 00:54:28,070 --> 00:54:29,070 Worry.
1374 00:54:29,070 --> 00:54:30,070 About.
1375 00:54:30,070 --> 00:54:31,070 Our.
1376 00:54:31,070 --> 00:54:32,070 Time.
1377 00:54:32,070 --> 00:54:33,070 Is.
1378 00:54:33,070 --> 00:54:34,070 Almost.
1379 00:54:34,070 --> 00:54:35,070 Up.
1380 00:54:35,070 --> 00:54:36,070 But.
1381 00:54:36,070 --> 00:54:37,070 Just.
1382 00:54:37,070 --> 00:54:38,070 A.
1383 00:54:38,070 --> 00:54:39,070 Few.
1384 00:54:39,070 --> 00:54:40,070 Questions.
1385 00:54:40,070 --> 00:54:41,070 More.
1386 00:54:41,070 --> 00:54:42,070 Are.
1387 00:54:42,070 --> 00:54:43,070 You.
1388 00:54:43,070 --> 00:54:44,070 Familiar.
1389 00:54:44,070 --> 00:54:45,070 With.
1390 00:54:45,070 --> 00:54:46,070 The.
1391 00:54:46,070 --> 00:54:47,070 Swedish.
1392 00:54:47,070 --> 00:54:48,070 Term.
1393 00:54:48,070 --> 00:54:49,070 Åsiktskorridoren.
1394 00:54:49,070 --> 00:54:50,070 Oh.
1395 00:54:50,070 --> 00:54:51,070 Yes.
1396 00:54:51,070 --> 00:54:52,070 I.
1397 00:54:52,070 --> 00:54:53,070 Love.
1398 00:54:53,070 --> 00:54:54,070 My.
1399 00:54:54,070 --> 00:54:55,070 Time.
1400 00:54:55,070 --> 00:54:56,070 Säg.
1401 00:54:56,070 --> 00:54:57,070 No.
1402 00:54:57,070 --> 00:54:58,070 No.
1403 00:54:58,070 --> 00:54:59,070 You.
1404 00:54:59,070 --> 00:55:00,070 Can't.
1405 00:55:00,070 --> 00:55:01,070 Se.
1406 00:55:01,070 --> 00:55:02,070 Anything.
1407 00:55:02,070 --> 00:55:03,070 But.
1408 00:55:03,070 --> 00:55:04,070 Climate.
1409 00:55:04,070 --> 00:55:05,070 Is.
1410 00:55:05,070 --> 00:55:06,070 The.
1411 00:55:06,070 --> 00:55:07,070 End.
1412 00:55:07,070 --> 00:55:08,070 Of.
1413 00:55:08,070 --> 00:55:09,070 The.
1414 00:55:09,070 --> 00:55:10,070 World.
1415 00:55:10,070 --> 00:55:11,070 We.
1416 00:55:11,070 --> 00:55:12,070 Need.
1417 00:55:12,070 --> 00:55:13,070 To.
1418 00:55:13,070 --> 00:55:14,070 Do.
1419 00:55:14,070 --> 00:55:15,070 Everything.
1420 00:55:15,070 --> 00:55:16,070 About.
1421 00:55:16,070 --> 00:55:17,070 It.
1422 00:55:17,070 --> 00:55:18,070 Is.
1423 00:55:18,070 --> 00:55:19,070 No.
1424 00:55:19,070 --> 00:55:20,070 Långer.
1425 00:55:20,070 --> 00:55:21,070 I.
1426 00:55:21,070 --> 00:55:22,070 Think.
1427 00:55:22,070 --> 00:55:23,070 It.
1428 00:55:23,070 --> 00:55:24,070 Is.
1429 00:55:24,070 --> 00:55:25,070 More.
1430 00:55:25,070 --> 00:55:26,070 Common.
1431 00:55:26,070 --> 00:55:27,070 Like.
1432 00:55:27,070 --> 00:55:28,070 Bill Gates.
1433 00:55:28,070 --> 00:55:29,070 And.
1434 00:55:29,070 --> 00:55:30,070 Many.
1435 00:55:30,070 --> 00:55:31,070 Others.
1436 00:55:31,070 --> 00:55:32,070 To.
1437 00:55:32,070 --> 00:55:33,070 Say.
1438 00:55:33,070 --> 00:55:34,070 Wait.
1439 00:55:34,070 --> 00:55:35,070 A.
1440 00:55:35,070 --> 00:55:36,070 Minute.
1441 00:55:36,070 --> 00:55:37,070 We.
1442 00:55:37,070 --> 00:55:38,070 Actually.
1443 00:55:38,070 --> 00:55:39,070 Also.
1444 00:55:39,070 --> 00:55:40,070 Have.
1445 00:55:40,070 --> 00:55:41,070 Other.
1446 00:55:41,070 --> 00:55:42,070 Problem.
1447 00:55:42,070 --> 00:55:43,070 And.
1448 00:55:43,070 --> 00:55:44,070 I.
1449 00:55:44,070 --> 00:55:45,070 Think.
1450 00:55:45,070 --> 00:55:46,070 You.
1451 00:55:46,070 --> 00:55:47,070 Know.
1452 00:55:47,070 --> 00:55:48,070 The.
1453 00:55:48,070 --> 00:55:49,070 Invasion.
1454 00:55:49,070 --> 00:55:50,070 Of.
1455 00:55:50,070 --> 00:55:51,070 Ukraine.
1456 00:55:51,070 --> 00:55:52,070 And.
1457 00:55:52,070 --> 00:55:53,070 We.
1458 00:55:53,070 --> 00:55:54,070 Really.
1459 00:55:54,070 --> 00:55:55,070 Just.
1460 00:55:55,070 --> 00:55:56,070 Have.
1461 00:55:56,070 --> 00:55:57,070 This.
1462 00:55:57,070 --> 00:55:58,070 One.
1463 00:55:58,070 --> 00:55:59,070 Problem.
1464 00:55:59,070 --> 00:56:00,070 We.
1465 00:56:00,070 --> 00:56:01,070 Need.
1466 00:56:01,070 --> 00:56:02,070 To.
1467 00:56:02,070 --> 00:56:03,070 Fix.
1468 00:56:03,070 --> 00:56:04,070 Climate.
1469 00:56:04,070 --> 00:56:05,070 Change.
1470 00:56:05,070 --> 00:56:06,070 Sure.
1471 00:56:06,070 --> 00:56:07,070 It.
1472 00:56:07,070 --> 00:56:08,070 Is.
1473 00:56:08,070 --> 00:56:09,070 Going.
1474 00:56:09,070 --> 00:56:10,070 To.
1475 00:56:10,070 --> 00:56:11,070 Be.
1476 00:56:11,070 --> 00:56:12,070 Expensive.
1477 00:56:12,070 --> 00:56:13,070 But.
1478 00:56:13,070 --> 00:56:14,070 We.
1479 00:56:14,070 --> 00:56:15,070 Can.
1480 00:56:15,070 --> 00:56:16,070 Afford.
1481 00:56:16,070 --> 00:56:17,070 It.
1482 00:56:17,070 --> 00:56:18,070 Is.
1483 00:56:18,070 --> 00:56:19,070 Really.
1484 00:56:19,070 --> 00:56:20,070 Careful.
1485 00:56:20,070 --> 00:56:21,070 The.
1486 00:56:21,070 --> 00:56:22,070 Winners.
1487 00:56:22,070 --> 00:56:23,070 You.
1488 00:56:23,070 --> 00:56:24,070 Are.
1489 00:56:24,070 --> 00:56:25,070 Starting.
1490 00:56:25,070 --> 00:56:26,070 To.
1491 00:56:26,070 --> 00:56:27,070 Win.
1492 00:56:27,070 --> 00:56:28,070 Now.
1493 00:56:28,070 --> 00:56:29,070 I.
1494 00:56:29,070 --> 00:56:30,070 Can.
1495 00:56:30,070 --> 00:56:31,070 I.
1496 00:56:31,070 --> 00:56:32,070 Know.
1497 00:56:32,070 --> 00:56:33,070 I.
1498 00:56:33,070 --> 00:56:34,070 Know.
1499 00:56:34,070 --> 00:56:35,070 I.
1500 00:56:35,070 --> 00:56:36,070 Don't.
1501 00:56:36,070 --> 00:56:37,070 Think.
1502 00:56:37,070 --> 00:56:38,070 That's.
1503 00:56:38,070 --> 00:56:39,070 The.
1504 00:56:39,070 --> 00:56:40,070 Right.
1505 00:56:40,070 --> 00:56:41,070 Way.
1506 00:56:41,070 --> 00:56:42,070 To.
1507 00:56:42,070 --> 00:56:43,070 Think.
1508 00:56:43,070 --> 00:56:44,070 About.
1509 00:56:44,070 --> 00:56:45,070 It.
1510 00:56:45,070 --> 00:56:46,070 Is.
1511 00:56:46,070 --> 00:56:47,070 Much.
1512 00:56:47,070 --> 00:56:48,070 More.
1513 00:56:48,070 --> 00:56:49,070 That.
1514 00:56:49,070 --> 00:56:50,070 Just.
1515 00:56:50,070 --> 00:56:51,070 Ideologically.
1516 00:56:51,070 --> 00:56:52,070 Let's.
1517 00:56:52,070 --> 00:56:53,070 Do.
1518 00:56:53,070 --> 00:56:54,070 This.
1519 00:56:54,070 --> 00:56:55,070 In.
1520 00:56:55,070 --> 00:56:56,070 Cost.
1521 00:56:56,070 --> 00:56:57,070 Effective.
1522 00:56:57,070 --> 00:56:58,070 Way.
1523 00:56:58,070 --> 00:56:59,070 Rather.
1524 00:56:59,070 --> 00:57:00,070 Than.
1525 00:57:00,070 --> 00:57:01,070 Just.
1526 00:57:01,070 --> 00:57:02,070 Wasting.
1527 00:57:02,070 --> 00:57:03,070 Lots.
1528 00:57:03,070 --> 00:57:04,070 Of.
1529 00:57:04,070 --> 00:57:05,070 Resources.
1530 00:57:05,070 --> 00:57:06,070 On.
1531 00:57:06,070 --> 00:57:07,070 Doing.
1532 00:57:07,070 --> 00:57:08,070 Almost.
1533 00:57:08,070 --> 00:57:09,070 No.
1534 00:57:09,070 --> 00:57:10,070 Good.
1535 00:57:10,070 --> 00:57:11,070 Looking.
1536 00:57:11,070 --> 00:57:12,070 Back.
1537 00:57:12,070 --> 00:57:13,070 At.
1538 00:57:13,070 --> 00:57:14,070 The.
1539 00:57:14,070 --> 00:57:15,070 History.
1540 00:57:15,070 --> 00:57:16,070 Of.
1541 00:57:16,070 --> 00:57:17,070 The.
1542 00:57:17,070 --> 00:57:18,070 Debate.
1543 00:57:18,070 --> 00:57:19,070 Of.
1544 00:57:19,070 --> 00:57:20,070 All.
1545 00:57:20,070 --> 00:57:21,070 That.
1546 00:57:21,070 --> 00:57:22,070 Just.
1547 00:57:22,070 --> 00:57:23,070 Shows.
1548 00:57:23,070 --> 00:57:24,070 You.
1549 00:57:24,070 --> 00:57:25,070 Always.
1550 00:57:25,070 --> 00:57:26,070 More.
1551 00:57:26,070 --> 00:57:27,070 Right.
1552 00:57:27,070 --> 00:57:28,070 So.
1553 00:57:28,070 --> 00:57:29,070 I.
1554 00:57:29,070 --> 00:57:30,070 Think.
1555 00:57:30,070 --> 00:57:31,070 The.
1556 00:57:31,070 --> 00:57:32,070 Fundamental.
1557 00:57:32,070 --> 00:57:33,070 Point.
1558 00:57:33,070 --> 00:57:34,070 Has.
1559 00:57:34,070 --> 00:57:35,070 Always.
1560 00:57:35,070 --> 00:57:36,070 Been.
1561 00:57:36,070 --> 00:57:37,070 That.
1562 00:57:37,070 --> 00:57:38,070 Yes.
1563 00:57:38,070 --> 00:57:39,070 There.
1564 00:57:39,070 --> 00:57:40,070 Is.
1565 00:57:40,070 --> 00:57:41,070 A.
1566 00:57:41,070 --> 00:57:42,070 Climate.
1567 00:57:42,070 --> 00:57:43,070 Problem.
1568 00:57:43,070 --> 00:57:44,070 But.
1569 00:57:44,070 --> 00:57:45,070 No.
1570 00:57:45,070 --> 00:57:46,070 It's.
1571 00:57:46,070 --> 00:57:47,070 Not.
1572 00:57:47,070 --> 00:57:48,070 Going.
1573 00:57:48,070 --> 00:57:49,070 To.
1574 00:57:49,070 --> 00:57:50,070 Because.
1575 00:57:50,070 --> 00:57:51,070 This.
1576 00:57:51,070 --> 00:57:52,070 Was.
1577 00:57:52,070 --> 00:57:53,070 What.
1578 00:57:53,070 --> 00:57:54,070 The.
1579 00:57:54,070 --> 00:57:55,070 Climate.
1580 00:57:55,070 --> 00:57:56,070 Economy.
1581 00:57:56,070 --> 00:57:57,070 Who.
1582 00:57:57,070 --> 00:57:58,070 Who.
1583 00:57:58,070 --> 00:57:59,070 Got.
1584 00:57:59,070 --> 00:58:00,070 The.
1585 00:58:00,070 --> 00:58:01,070 Nova.
1586 00:58:01,070 --> 00:58:02,070 Price.
1587 00:58:02,070 --> 00:58:03,070 In.
1588 00:58:03,070 --> 00:58:04,070 Climate.
1589 00:58:04,070 --> 00:58:05,070 Economics.
1590 00:58:05,070 --> 00:58:06,070 He.
1591 00:58:06,070 --> 00:58:07,070 Built.
1592 00:58:07,070 --> 00:58:08,070 The.
1593 00:58:08,070 --> 00:58:09,070 First.
1594 00:58:09,070 --> 00:58:10,070 Models.
1595 00:58:10,070 --> 00:58:11,070 Back.
1596 00:58:11,070 --> 00:58:12,070 In.
1597 00:58:12,070 --> 00:58:13,070 The.
1598 00:58:13,070 --> 00:58:14,070 Early.
1599 00:58:14,070 --> 00:58:15,070 Eighties.
1600 00:58:15,070 --> 00:58:16,070 Nineteen.
1601 00:58:16,070 --> 00:58:17,070 Eighties.
1602 00:58:17,070 --> 00:58:18,070 All.
1603 00:58:18,070 --> 00:58:19,070 The.
1604 00:58:19,070 --> 00:58:20,070 Thing.
1605 00:58:20,070 --> 00:58:21,070 Specific.
1606 00:58:21,070 --> 00:58:22,070 You.
1607 00:58:22,070 --> 00:58:23,070 Would.
1608 00:58:23,070 --> 00:58:24,070 Like.
1609 00:58:24,070 --> 00:58:25,070 To.
1610 00:58:25,070 --> 00:58:26,070 Add.
1611 00:58:26,070 --> 00:58:27,070 So.
1612 00:58:27,070 --> 00:58:28,070 To.
1613 00:58:28,070 --> 00:58:29,070 The.
1614 00:58:29,070 --> 00:58:30,070 Listen.
1615 00:58:30,070 --> 00:58:31,070 Is.
1616 00:58:31,070 --> 00:58:32,070 To.
1617 00:58:32,070 --> 00:58:33,070 Summarize.
1618 00:58:33,070 --> 00:58:34,070 Or.
1619 00:58:34,070 --> 00:58:35,070 Anything.
1620 00:58:35,070 --> 00:58:36,070 Extra.
1621 00:58:36,070 --> 00:58:37,070 So.
1622 00:58:37,070 --> 00:58:38,070 I.
1623 00:58:38,070 --> 00:58:39,070 Think.
1624 00:58:39,070 --> 00:58:40,070 We.
1625 00:58:40,070 --> 00:58:41,070 End.
1626 00:58:41,070 --> 00:58:42,070 Up.
1627 00:58:42,070 --> 00:58:43,070 And.
1628 00:58:43,070 --> 00:58:44,070 And.
1629 00:58:44,070 --> 00:58:45,070 I.
1630 00:58:45,070 --> 00:58:46,070 Love.
1631 00:58:46,070 --> 00:58:47,070 This.
1632 00:58:47,070 --> 00:58:48,070 World.
1633 00:58:48,070 --> 00:58:49,070 Population.
1634 00:58:49,070 --> 00:58:50,070 So.
1635 00:58:50,070 --> 00:58:51,070 About.
1636 00:58:51,070 --> 00:58:52,070 Four.
1637 00:58:52,070 --> 00:58:53,070 Billion.
1638 00:58:53,070 --> 00:58:54,070 People.
1639 00:58:54,070 --> 00:58:55,070 Live.
1640 00:58:55,070 --> 00:58:56,070 In.
1641 00:58:56,070 --> 00:58:57,070 Low.
1642 00:58:57,070 --> 00:58:58,070 And.
1643 00:58:58,070 --> 00:58:59,070 Low.
1644 00:58:59,070 --> 00:59:00,070 Middle.
1645 00:59:00,070 --> 00:59:01,070 Income.
1646 00:59:01,070 --> 00:59:02,070 Countries.
1647 00:59:02,070 --> 00:59:03,070 Where.
1648 00:59:03,070 --> 00:59:04,070 The.
1649 00:59:04,070 --> 00:59:05,070 World.
1650 00:59:05,070 --> 00:59:06,070 Is.
1651 00:59:06,070 --> 00:59:07,070 Just.
1652 00:59:07,070 --> 00:59:08,070 Unrecognizable.
1653 00:59:08,070 --> 00:59:09,070 To.
1654 00:59:09,070 --> 00:59:10,070 The.
1655 00:59:10,070 --> 00:59:11,070 Immense.
1656 00:59:11,070 --> 00:59:12,070 Luxury.
1657 00:59:12,070 --> 00:59:13,070 We.
1658 00:59:13,070 --> 00:59:14,070 Live.
1659 00:59:14,070 --> 00:59:15,070 In.
1660 00:59:15,070 --> 00:59:16,070 A.
1661 00:59:16,070 --> 00:59:17,070 Big.
1662 00:59:17,070 --> 00:59:18,070 And.
1663 00:59:18,070 --> 00:59:19,070 Very.
1664 00:59:19,070 --> 00:59:20,070 Basic.
1665 00:59:20,070 --> 00:59:21,070 Problems.
1666 00:59:21,070 --> 00:59:22,070 For.
1667 00:59:22,070 --> 00:59:23,070 The.
1668 00:59:23,070 --> 00:59:24,070 Majority.
1669 00:59:24,070 --> 00:59:25,070 Of.
1670 00:59:25,070 --> 00:59:26,070 Humanity.
1671 00:59:26,070 --> 00:59:27,070 And.
1672 00:59:27,070 --> 00:59:28,070 These.
1673 00:59:28,070 --> 00:59:29,070 Are.
1674 00:59:29,070 --> 00:59:30,070 Problems.
1675 00:59:30,070 --> 00:59:31,070 That.
1676 00:59:31,070 --> 00:59:32,070 We.
1677 00:59:32,070 --> 00:59:33,070 Can.
1678 00:59:33,070 --> 00:59:34,070 Solve.
1679 00:59:34,070 --> 00:59:35,070 At.
1680 00:59:35,070 --> 00:59:36,070 Very.
1681 00:59:36,070 --> 00:59:37,070 Very.
1682 00:59:37,070 --> 00:59:38,070 Low.
1683 00:59:38,070 --> 00:59:39,070 Cost.
1684 00:59:39,070 --> 00:59:40,070 So.
1685 00:59:40,070 --> 00:59:41,070 I.
1686 00:59:41,070 --> 00:59:42,070 You.
1687 00:59:42,070 --> 00:59:43,070 Know.
1688 00:59:43,070 --> 00:59:44,070 Encourage.
1689 00:59:44,070 --> 00:59:45,070 Not.
1690 00:59:45,070 --> 00:59:46,070 At. All.
1691 00:59:46,070 --> 00:59:47,070 Where.
1692 00:59:47,070 --> 00:59:48,070 We.
1693 00:59:48,070 --> 00:59:49,070 Are.
1694 00:59:49,070 --> 00:59:50,070 Thank.
1695 00:59:50,070 --> 00:59:51,070 You.
1696 00:59:51,070 --> 00:59:52,070 For.
1697 00:59:52,070 --> 00:59:53,070 That.
1698 00:59:53,070 --> 00:59:54,070 Summary.
1699 00:59:54,070 --> 00:59:55,070 And.
1700 00:59:55,070 --> 00:59:56,070 Thank.
1701 00:59:56,070 --> 00:59:57,070 You.
1702 00:59:57,070 --> 00:59:58,070 So.
1703 00:59:58,070 --> 00:59:59,070 Much.
1704 00:59:59,070 --> 01:00:00,070 For.
1705 01:00:00,070 --> 01:00:01,070 Joining.
1706 01:00:01,070 --> 01:00:02,070 Me.
1707 01:00:02,070 --> 01:00:03,070 Today.
1708 01:00:03,070 --> 01:00:04,070 Björn.
1709 01:00:04,070 --> 01:00:05,070 Lomborg.
1710 01:00:05,070 --> 01:00:06,070 Stort.
1711 01:00:06,070 --> 01:00:07,070 Tack.
1712 01:00:07,070 --> 01:00:08,070 Också.
1713 01:00:08,070 --> 01:00:09,070 Förstås.
1714 01:00:09,070 --> 01:00:10,070 Till.
1715 01:00:10,070 --> 01:00:11,070 Er.
1716 01:00:11,070 --> 01:00:12,070 Som.
1717 01:00:12,070 --> 01:00:13,070 Har.
1718 01:00:13,070 --> 01:00:14,070 Er.
1719 01:00:14,070 --> 01:00:15,070 Förslag.
1720 01:00:15,070 --> 01:00:16,070 På.
1721 01:00:16,070 --> 01:00:17,070 Ämnen.
1722 01:00:17,070 --> 01:00:18,070 Vi.
1723 01:00:18,070 --> 01:00:19,070 Ska.
1724 01:00:19,070 --> 01:00:20,070 Ta upp.
1725 01:00:20,070 --> 01:00:21,070 I.
1726 01:00:21,070 --> 01:00:22,070 Framtiden.
1727 01:00:22,070 --> 01:00:23,070 Maila.
1728 01:00:23,070 --> 01:00:24,070 Då.
1729 01:00:24,070 --> 01:00:25,070 Till.
1730 01:00:25,070 --> 01:00:26,070 Ledarsidan.
1731 01:00:26,070 --> 01:00:27,070 Snabla.
1732 01:00:27,070 --> 01:00:28,070 Svd.
1733 01:00:28,070 --> 01:00:29,070 Punt.
1734 01:00:29,070 --> 01:00:30,070 Se.
1735 01:00:30,070 --> 01:00:31,070 Dagens.
1736 01:00:31,070 --> 01:00:32,070 Producent.
1737 01:00:32,070 --> 01:00:33,070 Han.
1738 01:00:33,070 --> 01:00:34,070 Heter.
1739 01:00:34,070 --> 01:00:35,070 Jesper.
1740 01:00:35,070 --> 01:00:36,070 Sandström.
1741 01:00:36,070 --> 01:00:37,070 Ansvarig.
1742 01:00:37,070 --> 01:00:38,070 Utgivare.
1743 01:00:38,070 --> 01:00:39,070 Lisa.
1744 01:00:39,070 --> 01:00:40,070 Irenius.
1745 01:00:40,070 --> 01:00:41,070 Själv.
1746 01:00:41,070 --> 01:00:42,070 Heter.
Källinformation
- Utgivare:
- Svenska Dagbladet
Skapad: 16 april 2026